Archives of an email list on the history of binoculars. http://home.europa.com/~telscope/listp100.txt home page: http://home.europa.com/~telscope/binotele.htm 101-150 Binocular List #101: 24 April 2000. Fujinon 70mm, Mirakel, Sans & Streiffe 999 ====================================== Subject: New (?) Fujinon 70 mm models Fujinon has an economy model of their 10 x 70, & 16 x 70, binoculars. The FMT-SX models are the old standard, "flat image plane... enables observation of the marginal area of a visual field, sharper, more true to life colors, and minimize distortions and astigmatism"; also "every lens and prism surface is coated with a special new EBC process". The 10x & 16x MT-SX are 70mm, with identical specifications, but apparently without the 'flat image' corrector lens; and the "EBC coating is applied to all lens surface in contact with the air" (it is unclear if both product lines are fully EBC coated - - are they saying that the binoculars are nitrogen purged, so there's no air contacting the inner surfaces?.) http://www.fujinon.co.jp/products/optical/bn01.htm My local astronomy club is looking to buy a big binocular; anyone who's used both lines could provide some needed input. Thanks, Peter ================================= Subject: Mirakel From: Bob Bibb, rbibb@___.com I have a small glass marked mirakel, it's 7-17.5 Its marked on the top hinge 7-65, it doesn't make sense. It's made of plastic like material for the body and eyecups, the rest metal. It's harwix- berlin on left cover and mirakel on right. If I can help any other way let me know. bob bibb ====== From: hans.t.seeger@___ne.de (Seeger) Today, I can tell something about the "MIRAKEL" binocular. I have one of these small prismatic binoculars, Ser.-No. 5156, with individual eye focusing. The body is of black vulcanite and the shape is peculiar and only to be found on this glass. The weight is 130 grams. The glass has apparently Porro I prisms but I have not opened it. On the upper left the manufacturer's name is given - the letters raised and part of the cast body: HARVIX BERLIN. In the same way there is on the right the word MIRAKEL. (Mirakel is translated miracle). On the brass washer top center the magnification is given: 3 1/2. The objective diameter is about 13 mm. The height of the small beautiful glass is 4.8 cm. Best regards Hans =============================================== Subject: Sans & Streiffe Model 999 7x35 From: Dick Buchroeder, rab@___net.com Gentlemen, Phil Lam and I finished measuring the eyepiece lenses for the S&S, a 12.5-deg 7x35, and the one that I've found to perform superior to any other that I've used so far. I contrived an objective and prisms to match. The eyepiece is the only complicated thing about a binocular. You don't want to even KNOW how much astigmatism something like this has over its 88-deg apparent FOV (about 20 diopters), but the computations agree with one's visual observations on terrestrial and stellar objects. However, S&S did an optimum job under the circumstances, and used high index glass throughout the eyepiece, BAK4 prisms. I looked again at the lens drawing and the astigmatism plots, and asked myself, "what would happen if that one singlet, that looks like it's turned around (based on experience), were reversed in direction. So, I turned it around and raytraced it. The astigmatism is cut in half, and the tangential focus is made flat...which as you know from my constant harping is the way it should be! The S&S as assembled produces a flat medial focus. I took the working half of the binocular out tonite and looked at lights, and confirmed that indeed edge-of-field blurs do seem to agree with the computed as- designed/assembled S&S lens orientation, NOT with my preferred flat T-field. There is no way one can accidently have the elements reversed, because the spacers will not permit it: glass will clink on glass. Neither of the two relevent spacers can be used unless both of the singlets indicated are oriented as they were when I disassembled the eyepiece. This is pretty exciting for me! It means that I can improve the performance of the S&S #999, which I ALREADY find superior to any other 7x35x12.5 commercial binocular I've ever used. The problem is, I need to get a couple of new spacers made. One is easy: its a straight cylinder with parallel ends. The other has to step down and have a semi-conical shape, correct on the outside to fit the lens barrel, and correct on the inside so as not to intrude excessively on the lens clear apertures. And everything has to be looked at closely to be sure the assembly in fact will 'tighten up' when its screwed back together. >If there is extreme astigmatism at the edge of the field, is the astig >halfway to the edge a variable? Can an ocular 'fall off' less than another >ocular with similar edge blur? Is this a variable, or if there is (say) 20 >D astig at the edge, will there usually be (say 5 D) halfway to the edge? In the S&S 999, there is considerable overcorrect 3rd order astigmatism, so that the S-focus curves 'inward', dominated by the Petzval sum, while the T-focus curves 'outward', and the medial or average focus is 'flat'. When the eyepiece element is reversed, 3rd order astigmatism is very low, so that both T and S curves follow the Petzval curve (undercorrect, inward curving), until finally 5th order astigmtism kicks in and sends the T-curve rightward, overcorrect; just enough to make the T curve nearly flat, but at least crossing over the plane that goes thru the on-axis focal point. In the nominal case, T and S curves are essentially parabolic, so that if you double the field, you quadruple the departure from the flat focal plane. I find that my eyes get along pretty well with about 3 diopters of astigmatism, and this is common in ALL the older binoculars, even the best, with a 55-deg AFOV. After that, all bets are off! But, better to have a wide blurry field than a small sharp field. Regards, Dick. ===================================== Subject: reviews of Fujinon 25 x 150 www.cloudynights.com http://www.monkoptics.co.uk/binoculars/Astronomy/Fuji_25x150review.html This one shows a Canon 5 x 17 held to the eyepieces of a Fujinon 25 x 150 to boost magnification.....I'll have to try that one. =================================================== ==================================================== Binocular List #102: 02 May 2000. Fujinon 10 x 70, more on Aberdeen ========================================== Subject: Fujinon 10 x 70 From: Peter Abrahams It was pointed out to me that, contrary to my last post, the newer, less expensive Fujinon Poseidon 10 x 70 has very limited eye relief of 12mm. I had a chance to compare the Fujinon Polaris 10 x 70 (about $540 discounted) with the Nikon Astroluxe 10 x 70 (about $1200 discounted). Both are very nice binoculars, the Nikon is superior but not $660. better. Both are waterproof, individual focus, and fairly heavy; the Nikon does not have a tripod adapting 1/4 - 20 hole. The Fujinon has oculars that are 50 mm in diameter, the Nikon has 40 mm oculars. As expected, the Fujinon has better eye relief, but the difference is nowhere near as large as could be expected from the size difference. Neither have adequate eye relief to use with spectacles; the field stop of the Fujinon disappears as the binocular is moved a very short distance away from the eye, but the field does not contract as quickly as with the Nikon, where the field becomes much smaller as the glass is moved a slight distance from the eye. I'm not bothering to quote the specifications for eye relief, because the figures are unrealistic. The 50 mm eyepieces of the Fuji are too large for me, I cannot fit them around my nose when they are closed to my 58 mm interpupillary distance. Both binoculars have a rather limited field of view of 51 degrees. Both are quite sharp to the edge of the field, with the slightest bit of pincushion distortion. I like to test contrast during the day by looking at old weathered wooden boards, the color gradations are very subtle. The Nikons use 'ED' glass, and the difference is slight but real; with very slightly contrasting colors being more visible in the Nikons. I have compared the Nikons with Fuji 16 x 70s at night, and the difference was noticeable: the Nikons rendered nebula as white or colorless, compared with a less brilliant, slightly green shade to the Fuji image. Both glasses are nicely baffled, but not perfectly so; viewing a bright light shows arcs of reflections off metal surfaces out past the edge of the field. The Fuji has a more uniform flat black interior, while there are more shiny metal surfaces showing inside the Nikon. However, the Nikon shows outstanding contrast in use, so the differences are academic. Finally, both binoculars reek of outgassing plastic, the Nikons stink in spite of being some years old & even after extensive washing with various soaps & solvents. I am considering stripping the vinyl covering off of them, as I find the smell offensive, but it takes some courage to strip a binocular this expensive. The Fujis have a similar odor but are new, so there is hope for them. ======= Subject: Fuji MT vs FMT 10x70 From: "Loren A. Busch" Haven't compared under dark skies, but we carry both in the store (at least at Lynnwood) and the only apparent difference is the eyepiece and color of the markings. I'll check our literature and see if they go into any more details on the coatings. One of the less known advantages for the Fujinon MT and FMT 7x50 and 10x70 series is the availability of screw on filters, including nebula filters, directly from Fujinon. They will also make custom prescription adapters for people that need the correction instead of eyeglasses. ============================================ =========================================== Binocular List #103: 09 May 2000. ====================================== Subject: Bino-building; new Russian giant From: Fan Tao This website shows a binocular shaped sculpture/building near Los Angeles, perhaps a future meeting site for binocular list members? http://www.usc.edu/isd/archives/la/pubart/sculptures/binoculars.html There was a recent ad on Astromart for giant binoculars, from astrostuff.com. I didn't see any information on that web site on these binoculars, however, so I don't know if they are available from them or if this was a one time deal. The ad was from only a week ago but it doesn't appear to be on Astromart anymore. NEW AMTc Giant 20x140 Binoculars with no glare coatings on both lens. 500mm FL; f3.5; 7mm ER [seems kind of short]; 10" red. [?]; 4 deg FOV; 50lbs; $3000 + S&H; Made in Russia. I wonder how much chromatic aberration there is with such large objectives at an f/ ratio of 3.5. Regards, Fan Tao fantao@___et.att.net ==================================== Subject: Nikon 10x70, 6.5 degree on Mauna Kea 4/30/00 From: rab I lugged those big, heavy Nikons to Mauna Kea with me last Sunday. I showed up at the Onizuka Visitors Information Center, at 9300', before sunset. A bunch of tourist vans were in the parking lot, and while I was wandering around, one of the van drivers approached me and asked if I wanted to pay $25 for a trip to the peak to see the sunset. Naturally, I said yes! Went up, wind was nearly still, clouds down at about the 5000' level (the Peak is at about 13,740'), and it got cold fast as the sun started sinking. Along with scanning the scenery with the Nikons, I guessed that it would be worth watching the sun sink down into the cloud layer...which was below local horizon. As the sun descended into the cloud layer, I noticed the start of a Green Flash, and watched it develop into a lengthy (several seconds) set of brilliant emerald green striations. At 10X! The van then returned everyone to the 9300' level for viewing without bothering the astronomers. The visitor center has several telescopes, including a Meade 16" LX200, which was out for the public under control of a volunteer amateur astronomer. Who just happened to have come in from Canada and was recruited for the purpose. I didn't take his name down, but he was friends with the Canadian astronomers (CFHT telescope, I imagine) on the Peak, and has spent a night up there with them. I asked him about stargazing at the peak. He said that he made magnitude estimates up there, and got down to only 5.8. At the 9300' level, he was getting down to 7th mag. So the anoxia effect that people talk about seems substantiated again. Anyway, I didn't go up there to look thru a crummy SCT, so I took the Nikons away from the crowd and viewed to the south. Unobstructed horizon in that direction (to the West, the zodiacal light was a nuisance), at latitude about 22-deg, of another 10-deg better than Tucson. So, I got to see a whole bunch of Milky Way objects not visible from here, and a better view of some that are, like Omega Centauri. How wonderful to have a big pair of quality wide-angle binoculars! Simply wonderful! Regards, Dick. ================================ Subject: Signal Corps Engineering Laboratory From: Peter Abrahams Yet another wartime optics lab was at the Signal Corps Engineering Laboratory, at Camp Evans, Monmouth County, New Jersey, 2000 acres which was part of Fort Monmouth. During the war years of 1941-1945, 3000 officers and civilians worked at Camp Evans. The most significant work done there was on radar, but Squier lab, the 'components, battery, photographic and testing laboratory', included an optics shop. This is where the the Carl Zeiss collection of photographic lenses was taken, along with other captured military optics, for evaluation. http://www.infoage.org/nrhp.html#SigCLab Kaprelian, E.K. Recent and Unusual German Lens Designs. J.O.S.A. 37 (6/1947), 466- 471. ================================= Subject: Sears 10x50 DISCOVERER, model no. 6268 From: rab Gentlemen, After lately accumulating a bunch of doggy binoculars on eBay, I finally achieved some measure of success: bought a Sears 10x50 with a marked field of 400' at 1000 yards, amber coated, in extremely good optical and mechanical condition! It is still in collimation, and the zero diopter differential is still correctly set (almost unheard of in the old binoculars I've bought thru eBay). It looks as though it was seldom if ever used, although it's case is warped and was probably rained on. No deterioration of any kind in the optics or metal. As with ALL the Sears stuff I've bought on eBay, it is characteristically deficient. In this case, its prisms have much too low a refractive index, and squareness of pupils is severe. I previously owned a 7x35 Sears Discoverer, and this looks very much like a scaled version of it. Did my after-dark testing tonite on city lights, and on real stars. One can always tell if there is the POSSIBILITY of a parasite image by examining the exit pupil with a magnifying glass. Thus, I could see a couple of small, slit-like areas where there might be such images and I looked for them on the city lights that fill my eastern horizon. It was difficult to find the parasites, but some do exist: if the binoculars are held below the lights and I look carefully, spurious overlaid images occur. However, it's actually difficult to make them appear, compared with most other binoculars where they are a conspicuous annoyance. This despite the low-index prisms causing significant squaring of the exit pupils. The general ghosting situation was quite good; no sharply focussed ghosts, remaining ghosts subdued. The Sears binocular is testimonial to the fact that even with small, low-index prisms it is possible to minimize or eliminate spurious images and ghosts. I found the plastic eyecaps to obstruct parts of my field of view, in exactly the same way that similar appearing caps make the Bushnell Rangemaster 7x35 inferior to the otherwise similar Swift Holiday Mark II 7x35. One's face is not necessarily symmetrical and brows will interfere with well-intentioned but ill-advised symmetrical eyecaps. Fortunately, I was able to remove one easily, and the other with some difficulty. (The plastic eyecap on one was stuck to the metal eyepiece retainer, and both were removable as a unit, but sheer finger-force wouldn't separate them. Last time I tried this I managed to break the plastic by using padded pliers, so this time I tried a different method. I put the stuck parts into a coffee cup half-filled with water, stuck in a microwave over for 90 seconds, and the different expansions made it easy to unscrew the two parts). This now made it easy for me to fit the binoculars, both sides, to my eyes and facial features. The field stops are now sensed entirely around the field of view with both of my eyes, and things are no longer painfully bumping into my face. There were also some other subtle advantages to removing the plastic eyecaps. There is sufficient depth to insert corrective spectacle elements onto the 24mm clear aperture eyelenses, but unfortunately I've run out of them. Nonetheless, despite my 2.5 diopters of astigmatism, I can sort out what's in the binocular from what's in my eyes and so I tested the binoculars on the stars as well as the city lights. I also did small-field testing wearing my glasses. The tangential field is not flat; the medial focus tends to be flattest, which is not optimal in my opinion. The pupil aberration is well-behaved, and there is no kidney-beaning; it is very comfortable to use these binoculars. Color correction both axial and lateral is correctly done. Overall, these are very pleasant glasses for city and star gazing. The square exit pupils are not causing any apparent artifacts to detract from the image, although in the end they must at least 'apodize' a wide-open eyeball's pupil and give some subtle diffraction spikes on bright objects, as well as cause transmission loss, especially off-axis. However, under bright city light conditions, I saw no evidence of this. Indeed, where there is often a 'ring of light' effect (for example, in Fujinon 16x70 binoculars) caused by pupil aberration and consequent field vignetting by the eye's pupil in some if not many binoculars, I was unaware of this occuring in these when I tested them earlier in daylight. I'll be looking again to see for sure. Physically, the Sears Discoverer 10x50 is about 3/4" shorter in length than my much-esteemed Bushnell Custom 10x50. This makes them somewhat more comfortable to hold. The bridge mechanism is flimsy and rocks, but experienced bino users know how to deal with this. The prism covers are bent sheet metal, not as tight as I'd like for dust protection. Otherwise, everything looks and feels solidly built. Except for the failure to use higher index prism glass, these are really very excellent binoculars, as was the 7x35 Sears Discoverer. As far as I can tell, there is little penalty for this shortcoming for daytime use, an opinion I've held for many years based on my prior experience with certain other low-index prism binoculars. I would be delighted to hear opinions to the contrary. There are no markings indented or otherwise to indicate which Japanese factory these came from. Their amber coatings suggest they come from the 1960 era. Regards, Dick. ============================================ =========================================== Binocular List #104: 16 May 2000. New Zeiss models, new source for reprints, meeting in L.A., Univex =============================================== Subject: New Zeiss models. "The Revolution in Binocular Design". Zeiss Victory 8x40 B T*, 10x40 B T*, 8x56 B T* and 10x56 B T* Binoculars New four-element Superachromat lenses to prevent color fringes caused by secondary spectrum and to achieve a short overall length. [triplet, & meniscus singlet that appears to focus the binocular] Lens elements with reduced center thickness and prisms of new, lighter types of glass for less weight. 8 x 56, eye relief 17.5mm, FOV 405' / 1000 yds, diopter +- 4.5 10 x 56, eye relief 15.6mm, FOV 330' / 1000 yds [63 degree apparent field], diopter +- 4.5, 5m close focus, weight 1200g, "the first handheld 10x binocular with a 56mm objective" Abbe-Koenig prisms ("with twice the volume as the Pechan prism as used by Swarovski, Leica...."). Zeiss T* multicoating matched to AOS for light transmission of over 90% in the spectral ranges where the eye is most sensitive by day and night. Internal focusing for optimum waterproofness and sealing against dust. Push-pull eyecups which can be locked in position (viewing without eyeglasses). Waterproof in compliance with DIN 58 390 80 (submersion). Filled with nitrogen to prevent internal fogging. Rubber-armored to provide improved grip in rain and cold. Practical tripod adapter for 1/4 and 3/8-in. threads. The optics have been designed using the Advanced Optics System (AOS) from Carl Zeiss. In the past, to build binoculars providing maximum image quality and performance, glass types were needed whose optical properties were only achieved by adding lead, arsenic or other metals. These additions have a high specific density and the binoculars, especially models with high magnifications and twilight performance, are correspondingly heavy. After many years of intensive cooperation with Zeiss optical scientists, Schott Glas, Mainz, a company of the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung and the world's biggest special glass manufacturer, has now succeeded in producing glass types without arsenic and lead, providing the optical properties required for systems of maximum image quality. The new glass types from Schott are markedly lighter, and their processing does not require the disposal of environmental pollutants. http://www.hensoldt-zeissgruppe.de/default.asp http://www.hensoldt-zeissgruppe.de/en/news.asp (English) Also, Anacortes Telescope has posted the English brochures for these: http://www.buytelescopes.com/ They also show a Zeiss 3 x 12 B Triple XXX Monocular, which can be fastened to the ocular of a Zeiss binocular to triple the magnification. ====== A historical note mixed in with the sales: Without eyeglasses, the necessary eye relief is achieved with Zeiss binoculars in three different ways: eyecups with a push-pull mechanism*, eyecups with a rotating mechanism*, and fold-down rubber eyecups. *As far back as 1954, Hensoldt applied for a utility patent for this type of adjustable eyecups and hence played a major role in the development of binoculars at a very early date. ================================================= Subject: Source of reprints From: "pernice" I have found last month a web site where you can find copies of several manuals of military optics like rangefinders and other optical instruments. http://www.military-info.com/aphoto/Subjectlist/photomenu.htm you must search at "optics " jean laurent ----------------------- Division of Military Engineering of the International Congress of Engineers. "Range and Position Finding for Purposes of Gunnery," by William Oliver Smith. Columbian Exposition (1894),XI.; 28 pages Price 3.00 {Item No.6111} Reports of the Chief of Ordnance and Board of Ordnance and Fortification. Test of Telescopic Sight with Vertical and Hortizontal Hairs," Annual Reports of the War Department 1902 Volume VII, Appendix X.; 3 pages Price 1.00 {Item No.5411} Appendix XI. Test of Zeiss Steroscopic Binocular Range Finder; 14 pages, 1 plate of illlustrations, many tables of results Price 2.00 {Item No.5412} Division of Military Engineering of the International Congress of Engineers. "Range and Position Finding," by Capt.W.T.Unge, Late of the Staff-General and Captain in Royal Uplands Regiment (Army of Sweden). Columbian Exposition (1894), XXXII.; 10 pages, plus 1 plate of illus. Price 1.00 {Item No.6134} ============================================== Subject: The Univex Story From: CARSLS@___m (Cynthia Repinski) The Univex Story. Cynthia Repinski. 1991. I have plenty of copies of the Univex Story, and will sell autographed copies to anyone that is interested for $27.95 + $3.00 Priority Mail shipping within the U.S.A. Outside the USA would be additional. ......The binocular chapter was quite a challenge. Yes, I too would have liked the chapter to be a bit longer, but the people associated with Universal that were so helpful were getting on in age and, after five years of research, I had to finally bring the entire project to a close. I wanted the people that contributed the most to see the finished book. I could have kept going with the research, but I had a number of very impatient 85 year old men waiting to see the book completed. Cynthia ========= From her ebay listing: the development of Universal's pioneering methods and machinery to produce lenses and prisms in mass quantities and how this compared to the more conventional means of lens and prism manufacture in widespread use by others in the optical industry at the time. The following other wartime optical manufacturers -- Anchor Optical Co., Bausch & Lomb Co., National Instrument Corp., Frankford Arsenal, Nash-Kelvinator, Research Enterprises Limited and Westinghouse -- are also discussed to a lesser extent. A total of 59 pages are devoted strictly to wartime production activities. Hardcover, 272 pages, 243 illustrations ========= The Univex Story has about 270 pages. Chapter 4: The Universal Optical Shop; The Universal Binoculars. (pages 113-169), is a very good outline of US binocular production during WWII, with many details of Univex products, including a plastic 6 x 42 that was produced in prototype quantities. --Peter =================================== ================================== Binocular List #105: 19 May 2000. Email: lots of email. ================================= Subject: Binocular telescope From: DaveTrott@___m I have rebuilt my 13" giant binocular telescope again. This time I think I have found a way to make this telescope very useable. I have also designed a unique "lazy diagonal" system for a pair of 4" refractor binoculars that many of you will find interesting. Check these things out at http://hometown.aol.com/davetrott/page1.htm Thanks! Dave Trott =========================== Subject: Reply from Belgium From: operaglassman Got the time to go through a lot of mailings on the place you indicated, and I saw some interesting features. I see some people presenting themselves to the group of collectors, and that is what I will try to do. In the first place, if my English is not correct, do not shoot me, as Dutch is what I am used to speak and write. I can manage in German and French, but I'd rather go for the English. Presenting myself, I am a 50 years old collector of operaglasses, spyglasses, and related items. I also collect prints on the subject, but my wife thinks I should choose for just one of the two. I have nothing whatsoever to do with optics, but I am a keen collector, with a collection reaching 500 pieces, from as earluy as 1670-80, till 1995. Most of them are operaglasses, but I recently bought some good binoculars, prismatic as wel as galilean. With these binoculars, I try to go for what in my opinion is museumquality, original leather case, and practically unused. And I seem to succeed at times. I'm not prepared to sell, but later, in let's say 10-15 years time, the will eventually come up to be used as swapping material. Exchanging an operaglass for a binocular. I hope You have a good view of me to start with. Question : Two hours ago, I was offered for sale a marine telescope, about 50-60cm long, single draw, leather bound objective tube, brass tume and sunshade. One slight problem, the objective lens is chipped, and normally should need repair. What would this reparation cost? Objective lens has a diameter of about 7cm. Can this be done in Europe, and by what firm? The telescope is signed : Kelvin & Hughes (marine) Ltd 0402/1633. Question : As a collector I am in nearly constant search for new or extraordinary operaglasses, has anyone something to offer. I am a low-budget collector, but for the extraordinary I would make an effort. I have written a booklet on operaglasses, which is out of print at the moment, but a reprint, in a far better version is prepared, adding new photographs, and prints. I also am starting a webpage which is still under construction. I hope, I did not take too much of Your time, looking forward to hearing from You or the other collectors in the group. Jean-marie Devriendt, alias operaglassman ====== Jean-marie, thank you for the introduction, which reminds me of several details: --First, we have had little input on opera glasses or field glasses (Galilean optics). There is a lot of historical detail to be found in these instruments. In fact, the surviving instruments ARE the historical record, since there is so little paper documentation (as Hans Seeger writes). We would all like to know more about the makers of these opera glasses, so anything you can write about them would be welcome. >One slight problem, the objective lens is chipped, and normally >should need repair. What would this reparation cost? Kelvin & Hughes was associated with Lord Kelvin, famous physicist. They probably did not make the spyglass, but retailed it. To repair this, would mean re-grinding the lens surface, and I'm sure there are many optical shops in Europe that can do this. You could replace the lens, and keep the original. This would mean buying a lens of the correct focal length, and the correct diameter. It would be coated -- it is very difficult to find an uncoated lens. You could find a replacement lens in Europe, but I don't know where. Perhaps our European readers could provide some information. Please reply to the list, so everyone can benefit. ====================================== From: gene harryman In one of the earlier postings, one of the members Fan Tao had some question about some "Red Star" Russian 7x30 military glasses on EBay. The following may help him. I had queried the seller about several things about the glasses. He answered all except my question as to what factory they were out of. I am in touch with a fellow in Kazan in Russia who gets me things from the KOMZ factory for my glasses, and he said no-one there had heard of the "Red Star" brand, and that they thought that they might be a Chinese "knock-off". He also said that if they were nitrogen purged, that they did not come from KOMZ. KOMZ relies on tightness of seals for watertightness. The fellow in Kazan has been very reliable with me in the past, so possible this will point Fan Tao in a direction where he can get more info. As a final note, one of the members (I'm sorry, but I don't have the print-outs with me now or I would identify specifically, was asking about grease for binocs. I don't know if the others can get small quantities of the grease that Deutsch Optik uses, but if they can't, I know of a distributor for NYE Lubricants who will sell small quantities and ship UPS. If this would be of any use to anyone I would be more than happy to share his phone & address. I have bought several items from him and he is very prompt. The NYE factory recommended him to me. Thanks for the postings. Regards - Gene Harryman =============================================== Subject: More on viewing the green flash Pachon (South America) is at 2700 meters, give or take about 10 m. Just 500 m above Tololo, and 10 km line-of-sight distant from Tololo. From the summit of Pachon after my hikes there, it was spooky to have to look DOWN to see Tololo, with all its domes. Perhaps a very accurate altitude of Pachon is available now from the Gemini website, or etc. I suppose the datum for cartography has been updated since the 1980's, now since the advent of GPS receivers: you can do as well as a few meters now, in "averaging" mode of the portable GPS pocketable devices. We found the true altitude and position of the Spacewatch dome this way recently, and also the LPL roof-top telescope. I remember the Onizuka Center fondly. Also Hale Pohaku, and the summit of Mauna Kea. Wishing you a great visit there, Memorial Day!! And I hope you see the Green Flash. From Tololo, as the sun set over the cold Pacific, if I used optical aid (my 10-inch f/4 reflector projecting the sun on a screen), I saw mini-green-flashes, and big ones, EVERY sunset. Optical aid will show you a green flash every time. That is the secret. Now it's out! The "flash" is the detached pieces of the sun just before they wink out, becoming separated from the disk of the sun by atmospheric layers. As the sun sinks below them, the detached segments shrink, and as they get critically small, they are VERY green. And not just by color-contrast with the red or yellow sun: I have photographed them, and they are a saturated green on the Kodachrome-25 slides. In 2 1/2 years, I also showed dozens of astronomers who passed through Tololo the spectacle of nightly green flashes, using my "Green-Flash-Machine," the 10-inch I made and brought from NYC, and made them into true-believers in the green flash, including the late Mark Aronson, who was most dubious about its reality. All best, --Joe jmontani@___izona.EDU Joe Montani Lunar & Planetary Lab, University of Arizona,Tucson, AZ ----------- Joe, That's EXACTLY what I expected in regard to the Green Flashes! I hope I get a 2nd trip to the top this Memorial Day and that the weather up there is clear to see. Needless to say, looking at the sun with binoculars isn't exactly advisable, but the brightness of the sun as its sinking below the horizon is low enough to be harmless. ("Trust me"!). I was taking just fleeting glances at first, then observed steadily as attenuation increased. With the 10X binoculars, it was clear that the 'green flash' wasn't a flash at all, but the last fragment of the sun. It wasn't breaking into fragments on the one occasion I viewed it, so that's probably incidental. I watched the end of the disk first turn yellow, then light green, then vivid green until it disappeared. It never flashed, just progressed. Joe, you've really had some fascinating job experiences! Regards, Dick. ---------- From:Joe Montani I can't espouse spreading news about using optical aid to see the green flash reliably and regularly UNLESS users apply PROJECTION. Please, no direct viewing! Dangerous! Peligroso! Avoid, avoid!! Projection can be done with binoculars. Please don't view the sun directly with binoculars, at ANY altitude. Especially from the clear air high up on mountaintops. What's your vision worth to you? ;- ) Please be very careful. Use projection only. Live to "see" tomorrow. Sincere best wishes to all in using utmost care to protect the eyes, --Joe Montani ---------- Your conversation with Joe reminds me of when I used to work at Kitt Peak and occasionally would go over and watch the sun set with the 60" McMath Solar Telescope. There in a darkened room you had a 30" image of the sun setting against the distant horizon. As Joe points out, you had whole sections of the setting sun that were a brilliant green. What he doesn't indicate though, and may likely take a 60" scope to see, is the blue upper edge those green sections show. Yes, a blue border to the green flash! Anyway, I could go on about what you could see with a scope that big (saguaros and flying 747s silhoueted against the setting solar disk), but it would get dull after a while... -Dean Ketelsen: ------------ I've viewed the green flash through binoculars, but very fleetingly. The brilliant light of the sun is fair warning, but the infrared rays, increased by the aperture of the binocular, can harm and cannot be sensed. I'd say that the sights that can be seen through binoculars are a fair subject for this list. Maybe not a birder's whole 'life list', but the feathers & details seen through a glass can be interesting to hear about. --Peter ============================================== Subject: Binoculars for spies From: Peter Abrahams This list is also for binocular users, and we hardly ever hear from them. For example, I think it would be great if we could start assembling a directory of reviews, starting with the Leupolds of last month, & early reports from Fan Tao & Dick Buchroeder. I'm sure others, especially all the spies that read the list, have noticed an interesting effect when using binoculars to view through a dusty window and into the room behind. The window is dirty enough that it is impossible to see the room with unaided eye. But the binocular's limited depth of field means that you can defocus the window & focus on the room, the walls, and the contents (furniture, lamps, other spies, etc.). This allows you to pick out contours & see objects that you couldn't see with the naked eye. --Peter ===================================== Subject: Osborn Optical Moving From: optical-repair To all you fine folks. We will be moving our business & operation to the Seattle area in about 2 1/2 weeks. As soon as we get settled in and back in operation, we will contact everyone with our new address, phone & fax. We plan on resuming operation in fairly short order with a much more streamlined and timely throughput. We will be bringing on board an additional technician and hopefully an aprentice as well as utilizing a larger facility. Thanks to all for your patience and support. Earl Osborn Osborn Optical Systems/Osborn Optical Repair ========================================== ============================================ Binocular List #106: 23 May 2000. =============================== Subject: Apache by Pioneer Is this accurate? Is a 7 x 28 the current U.S. issue, and who is Pioneer? ------- 'Apache U.S. Military current issue binocular with out the laser filters. After operation Desert Storm, the military determined that more binoculars needed to be issued to more troops, but they needed to be smaller and lighter. Pioneer Marketing & Research developed the M24 Apache with the guidance of the U.S. military. 7x28 Black Rubber Armored, Inividual Eye Focus, Roof Prism $249.' http://www.swfa.com/binoculars/apache/ ------- I've got a recent brochure from Pioneer, of Westmont NJ, on their 'Navy One' binoculars, 7 x 50 and 8 x 24, with a special lens coating, the "SPARC: Stimulated Penetration Anti-Reflection Coating".....it does not inspire consumer confidence. -- Peter =========================== Subject: LEOS Big Eye Litton Electro-Optical Systems 20 X 120 Binocular, Mark III, Mod 5, (Big Eye) has a magnification of 20 power with an apparent field-of-view of approximately 70 degrees and an aperture of 120mm http://www.littoneos.com/products/optics/optics.htm http://www.littoneos.com/pdf_library/o_bigeye.pdf (Adobe Acrobat required for viewing the .pdf file) A biocular, image intensified, telescope: http://www.littoneos.com/pdf_library/os_pvs-8.pdf Litton Electro-Optical Systems... provider of night vision products to U.S. allies.... over 12,000 man-years of experience in the design and manufacture of night vision devices and related products. Headquarters, 3414 Herrmann Drive, Garland, TX 75041-6188 Night Vision Binoculars, binocular service, 1215 S. 52nd Street, Tempe, AZ 85281 Applied Optics Center, Lenses, Prisms, Mirrors, Antireflective Coatings, 9827 Chartwell Drive, Dallas, TX 75243 ================================ Web page on binoculars for astronomy: http://www.pacific.net/~brooke/Bino.shtml ================================ Subject: Docter Optik From: "Brian Haren" Over here in Germany binoculars bearing the Docter Optik label appear regularly. I know Docter took over the old Zeiss Jena binocular and riflescope mfg. concern a few years back (in fact, in the Zeiss Optical Museum in Jena there is at least one Docter Optic binocular displayed along with the Zeiss products in a "Zeiss-only" display). These Docter products are considerably less expensive (while still not cheap) than Zeiss, and they are being marketed (at least to the Americans over here) as "Zeiss Jena quality and design, just under a different label" A question for the group - is Docter holding to the same quality standards that Zeiss Jena maintained? Is a Docter Optic "Nobilem" glass the same as a Zeiss Jena "Nobilem"? On another note, if any list watchers are planning a trip to Germany anytime in the future, I very highly recommend a stop in Jena to visit the Zeiss Optical Museum. The entrance fee is low, the ladies running the museum are very friendly, speak a little English and are obviously proud to be representing Zeiss. But most important, the depth and breadth of the museum's holdings is astounding. There are displays on virtually all phases of Zeiss production (including the post-WWII split and the creation of "East and West Zeiss"), biographical displays on Zeiss, Abbe and Schott, a comprehensive history of eyeglass development and, of course, outstanding displays covering the development of Zeiss microscopes, telescopes, camera lenses, binoculars, photogrammetric equipment, medical equipment (you can even give yourself an eye exam) and more! While all the displays are labled in German, an English language pamphlet is available. If you are optically inclined you won't need too much translation. Arrive early and plan to spend the day. Part of the museum also includes a recreation of an early Zeiss optical production shop located in the old Zeiss Volkshaus next door to the museum. In all, well worth the trip! Brian ====== Docter makes very nice binoculars, though the larger models with the eyeshields that are integral with the body, are some of the ugliest glasses I've seen. Their 'Aspherical' models have very good optics, though not better than the best 'spherical' binoculars. They are widely available in the U.S., at high prices, and I think the balance of opinion is that most models by Leica (somewhat more expensive), are a better purchase. The Docter 15 x 60 has a reputation for being very good, though I haven't used one. Perhaps another list member has a more informed opinion. --Peter ======================================= From: rab Subject: Re: more on viewing the sun I agree 100% that it was dangerous to suggest that anyone use optical aid to view the sun, because there are so many greenhorns out there that SOMEBODY will indeed do serious harm to his vision. HOWEVER, I disagree with you that it is unsafe to look at the sun as it sinks below the horizon. But better to err on the safe side and advise against EVER doing it and let the smart ones figure out for themselves the circumstances under which it can be done, as an an elective RISK if they choose to do so, as I do. This widespread paranoia about looking at the sun, even with proper safety measures, is the reason why Meade and Celestron, and other American makers, don't import or sell superior solar viewing devices, like the solar penta prism (Clave) and the Colzi prism (Zeiss), so that instead we are stuck with crappy aluminized mylar or mediocre metal-plated float glass. Anyway, it merits some quantitative analysis, don't you think? For example, what is the spectral input when the sun is down to a zenith angle of 89.5 degrees, etc. Regards, Dick. ----------- Below is from Bob Ariail: Joe Montani's and your experience with the "green flash" phenonomen was intriguing and extremely interesting as well. All of the books and material that I have seen on the mysterious green flash has played up the extreme difficulty in detecting it and none mentioned using magnification. I guess most of us go along with the 'herd of sheep' syndrome convenced the conventional word is the gospel. Its refreshing to hear of Joe's "green flash machine" that produced green flash fireworks at every sunset! Kudos to you as well for experimenting with binoculars without filters (to note the color) to carefully view the sun setting event and detect the extended green display. It must have been quite a sight. I know Joe waxed ballistic when you told him of your un-filitered views, but I have done the same with total eclipses using binoculars and telescope. Five eclipses have taught me that moments before the sun goes into total eclipse, one can take careful off axis glances at the sun and detect the progress without risking 'burnout' of the retna (or worse!). Just before the moment of totality direct vision with telescope or binoculars is possible and spectacular to see the erupting red flames of the prominences billowing forth. The sunset observation with optical aid must be very similiar. I remember a number of years ago setting up a C-90 to photograph the setting of the sun at the beach overlooking the ocean from the 5th level of a motel. The view and seeing were great and I got some excellent shots, but I was convenience from all that I had read that seeing the green flash had to be accomplished with the naked eye if one were to have a chance at it. I wasn't smart enough like you and Joe to experiment with optical aid to enhance the event. It now seems so logical now that you two have done it and exposed the myth! Joe's projection idea is the safe and easy way with a telescope of the size he was operating. I am surprised that color would be easily detected on a projection screen? The extended "green flash" must be quite vivid. Bob Ariail ----------- From: rab I've done my share of experimenting too with solar observing, eclipses included, and espcially sunsets. There is enormous extinction as the sun goes down and the risk is acceptible. I just had my retinas examined yesterday, by a professional optometrist, and no damage of any kind STILL after all these years of self-abuse! The damage that occurs would occur ONLY to the cornea and lens, both of which are fairly robust. The intensity on the retina is always less, with optical aid, than if you looked directly at the sun without any aid. That's because the image is spread out as M-squared, which if the optics had perfect transmission would be the same as direct view. It has already been calculated that one can stare at the sun for quite some time before the retina starts to fry. HOWEVER, that's definitely not a smart thing to do, even though calculations and childhood experiences show it to be so! It would be nice if somebody who knows meteorology AND astronomy did an article on greenflash viewing. I guess there are some chapters and articles out there on the subject, but they all seem to dwell on visual observation and treat it like it was something rare. I admit that up til Mauna Kea, I'd never seen one. But after seeing the magnified image, I believed I understood what was going on, and that it ought indeed to be a regular occurence if you were sitting on the top of a mountain. Joe's mountain was at only 7200 feet.Anyway, I hope I get another shot at it on Memorial Day. Just bought, again, the Nikon Venturer 10x42 because it looked 'so good' at Jensen's Gun Store, next to all the expensive Zeiss (all the usual, plus 15x60, 20x60 (a real dog optically) and had so much more eyerelief (but still not as much as it needs!) than anything else. Besides, I had some money burning a hole in my pocket and I couldn't let that go on. After getting it home, I did the old city lights test. This time, they got the coatings right on both sides, and I didn't see any bubbles in the optical cement bonds (using loupe magnification at the exit pupil). But, the images in it seem less than crisp and the transmission seems a little on the yellowish side. Frankly, the image doesn't compare very well with the old Bushnell 10x50 Customs.On the positive side, there seem to be absolutely no image parasites, and the zero-distortion correction is amusing and impressive to me, a lens designer. So, I'm going to keep this pair just as an example of what the current state-of-the-art binoculars is as of the year 2000. Later! Dick. --------------- From: rab Subject: Re: more on viewing the sun I just talked with Bob Goff here in Tucson, and the topic of 'green flash'came up. Bob G. is an experienced amateur astronomer, as well as a pro optician. Bob said he lived on the California coast and overlooked the Pacific for several years. He too reported that he could see the 'green flash', as well as the 'blue flash', on almost any clear day and he usually did it with a small refractor and welder's filters....up til the last moments when he would look fleetingly at the image directly. He felt emphatically that this was safe. Incidently, Bob has agreed to test the 10" f/8 paraboloid made and signed by Russell W. Porter. Regards again, Dick. ========================================= Subject: Meeting in L.A. From: Peter Abrahams Thursday is the meeting of binocular collectors. We will view & use an outstanding collection, have a talk on early 7 x 50s based on material in Seeger _Militaerische_; a discussion of some very unusual Kriegsmarine glasses, a brief presentation on photographing binoculars, a video on the disassembly of the blc 25 x 100, and -just confirmed- a visit by David & Nancy Bushnell, who will bring some photographs of their early business & Japanese contacts. Dick Buchroeder & I interviewed David & Nancy last year, and the transcription will be complete soon. Here is an excerpt: ---- "I decided to accompany the shipment on an old British freighter, and deliver the steel to Hong Kong personally. This was 1947. I was 34......I looked all over, you couldn't buy binoculars, because they had been given to the military during the war. I found a used pair of 6 x 30s at a pawn shop for $50., made by Universal Camera in Minneapolis. We sailed into Manila Bay, going around the sunken ships, and in to the berth. I was standing on deck, and someone on the dock called out, 'do you want to sell those binoculars?' I said, 'sure', I didn't want them anyway after I got off the ship. He said, 'I'll give you a hundred dollars for them.' That was my first sale, and a profitable one. That shows how scarce binoculars were at that time." ====================================== ========================================= Binocular List #107: 24 May 2000. Mostly Pioneer =================================== Subject: Pioneer From: gene harryman Pioneer is a large distributer for Steiner and some other brand. They also recondition and sell high end binocs. I used to have a brochure, but I don't think they have a web site. I believe they have an 800 number. Gene =========== From: "Bill Cook" >with a special lens coating, the "SPARC: But Peter, if you read further, you will see that it "reflects electromagnetic waves back into the light beam." Or, so it reads on one of their ads. It was that very ad that started me writing bino articles to explain the REALITIES of binoism and the market. If I had the money, I have lawyers all over crap like that. I'm back up to 6,000 rpm just being reminded of it. Regards to all, William J. Cook, Opticalman Chief, USNR-Ret. ========== From: "EDWARD KENNEDY" 6 years ago, I spoke with the people at Pioneer and was there in person. They stated that the Army and Marines had the M-22, basically a Commander II without compass and different coatings. He said the Navy did not want as expensive a binocular and wanted it more traditionally shaped. Steiner put a coating on them that was to suppress a fog /haze in the lens as a vessel sails into a lighted harbor. The glass from Japan, brought to Germany and assembled and coated in Bavaria. Civilian price-200 Navy 150. As for the Apache M-24. I criticized our Vietnam / subsequent Police actions as being ill equipped with optical assistance. In my unit, we individual soldiers bought civilian binoculars because there were none, I mean none , in the Army. Mine were always being borrowed. No officers had them, strange. The binos I used in the Army were 7x35mm Nikons with the old writing 7.3degrees, saddle quality case. Both are still in action . I had them cleaned 1985 and recollimated. Today , they would be the E series Nikons. A superb classic glass and one of the best Nikon made. The other glass I used was a Pansonic 7.5-15x40mm Zoom, The 7.5 was crisp , 15 only good for a peak. I own Leica 7x20 IF WP and 9x25 IF WP Rubber and the older Leupold 9x25's weatherproof and a superb all round glass they would be. In WWI , the Imperial German Army had the "08"'s 4 1/2 to 6 x with 39mm objectives about 4.5 degrees field of view, for noncoms, prismatic 4x 6x , etc , for Officers and Battery Commanders, also naval Galilean glasses. It showed as well . Ed ======== From: "Brian Haren" Reference the Navy One binoculars offered by Pioneer that you reference. I had a short opportunity to look through a pair of 7x50's while shopping in a boating supply store in the D.C. area about a year ago. I had never heard of the company before, and was looking at the selection of Fujinon's and Steiner's when the salesman pulled the Navy One's out of the display case. I was immediately impressed. They appeared to be very well made, internally they were clean and well baffled, and the image quality was at least as good as the Fuji's and slightly better than the Steiner (or so it seemed during my very subjective test), and about $70 cheaper than the Fuji's. The owner's brochure stated that they were "built to US Navy standards" and "Made In Japan", but by whom the brochure (or the salesman) couldn't say. Bottom line - had I been in the market for a new pair of 7x50's that day I would have walked out of the store with the Navy One's. Now, I'm in the Army, and in a unit that is authorized binoculars and uses them heavily, but I've never heard of this new "Pioneer Apache 7x28" binocular. They may be going to special forces units or light infantry units, who always get the new toys first. I'd be very interested to see an objective evaluation of these things. The two standard binoculars issued to Army units are the M19 and M22. Both are 7x50's. The M19's are the older, modular models (Vietnam era), M22's are the Steiner's. Both are good, certainly up to the rigors of military use. Optically the Steiners are better. As far as I know there are no other binoculars authorized for use by the Army. I have the current CD that references use and repair procedures for all Army binoculars and only the M19/22's are listed. If these new binos (from Pioneer) are being adopted by the Army they will probably go first to special forces and light infantry units. Any way you cut it the M19's and M22's are big and heavy, and any space/weight savings are very welcome if you are living out of your rucksack. Of course, if you are roaming about the battlefield in an armored personnel carrier why not mount a set of battleship bino's? Who cares about weight! An interesting side here - my Army user's manual for the M22's states that the bino's are warranted for 5 years by Pioneer & Co (sound familiar?). Hmm, I guess these guys are Steiner's stateside reps. Reference my earlier questions about Docter binos, I took the plunge and bought a pair of their 7x50 marine models (Nobilem?) with built-in compass. One of our local US Rod & Gun clubs was going out of business and was selling off their Docter stock at a great discount. These bino's are astounding! Certainly the best I've ever owned and pretty close to the best I've ever looked through (beaten only by a pair of $1,000+ Zeiss). If this pair is any indication then Docter is certainly holding to the old Zeiss Jena standards of quality. Brian ======== From: Peter Abrahams I learned this from a friend: Pioneer Marketing & Research is the U.S. marketing arm for Steiner Optics. When I first found out about this a year or so ago, I talked to my contacts at Pioneer. They indicated that Steiner wanted to disassociate themselves with the military model. It was the same mode of thought as the M-22 purchase, that is, they weren't getting what they felt was a comfortable enough profit margin and they don't like the idea of surplus units showing up in the commercial market. They feel the used military surplus units generally look very poor cosmetically and degrades their image. ======================================= Subject: Green tinted image From: Discovering Doñana My name is Claudio Manetti,I have found your e-mail list on binoculars and I am very interested. I am not a collector, but for ten years I have had a photographic workshop in Italy ( Jelen ), and binoculars were my passion, although generally in my small town bins were very ordinary models. Now I am working since eight years in Spain, I lead a company in Coto Doñana Park, organizing birdwatching trips; so I still use (and repair, but only for friends) binoculars. Anyway I don't have expensive bins, just good models in very good conditions. I have a problem: I would like to buy a Zeiss Jena Octarem 8x50 B/GA, I imagine the last type produced by DDR. The coating of the lenses looks dark golden. I like it, but there is a greenish cast that is evident when cloudy or at sunset, and is very light during the day. A yellowish cast would be tolerable, but this cast is cold, and I think it reduces the contrast with natural subjects. I don't have the possibility to compare it with other binoculars. Could anybody help me, telling if this was a common feature of this binocular? I have to decide or to give back it in a very short time. Greetings from Andalucía! Claudio Manetti Discovering Doñana S.L. Helping Birds To Enjoy Birders C/ Águila Imperial 150, 21750 El Rocío, Huelva, Spain Tel/Fax +34 959 44 24 66 http://www.sistelnet.es/donana mailto:donana@___net.es ======= Claudio, it is good to hear from Spain. I have not used an Octarem 8x50. But I have seen this green tint in other top quality binoculars, and I don't understand why they would use glass or coatings like this. Birders are probably the biggest buyers of expensive binoculars, and they need to see the exact color of the feathers -- so it makes no sense to tint the image. If you see green, it means less red is coming through the binocular. The green does not help with hazy atmosphere, like some people think yellow glass helps. I have read advertisements where they say that green tint helps you find game animals in a green forest, but I don't know if this is true. If you aren't happy with them after a day, you won't be happy after a month. Anyone else know a justification for a pale green cast? --Peter =============================================== =============================================== Binocular List #108: 31 May 2000. ==================================== Subject: Coatings From: "Bill Cook" Claudio: Few things in bino land are touted as much as coatings. The color of the tint as you look AT the instrument should not have a lot to do with the image you see THROUGH the instrument if it was correctly designed by a reputable company. The color is indicative of the type of metal deposited on the surface. Some coatings, the "ruby red" for example, WILL make a brown deer more visible against a green backdrop than a mag fluoride coated bino of the same aperture. The secret here is "of the same aperture." If you look at instruments with the ruby red coatings in the showroom you will note that you can see not only the shadow of your face but your skin tone as well. That is light that is supposed to be going the other direction. I have not done the math on this. However, I would not be surprised if a 7x50 bino coated with ruby red coating has any more throughput than another multi-coated instrument 42mm in aperture. As for the gold coatings: These were really popular back in the late 50's and early 60's. Pentax was big on the concept for a while. The coating on the objective DID improve contrast. However, like the ruby coating they sent a lot of light bouncing off. In addition, the eyelenses were also gold coated so some of the contrast gained at the objective lens would be lost at the ocular as back lighting reflected off those coatings and into your eyes. Finally, while some companies love to brag about the haze cutting abilities of their binos, methinks that if you move away from instruments like the Zeiss border glass you will find that "cast" comes from a poor choice in optical glass - perhaps too much lead in Rx. William J. Cook, Opticalman Chief, USNR-Ret. ===================================== Subject: Zeiss Jena Nobilum 15/60 and Doctor 15/60 From: dewees I have looked through both of these models in a side by side comparison. I think they were identical in every respect except the body covering, the Zeiss has leather coverings and the Doctor have rubber type. The quality of both of these binos is very excellent. The view is much superior to other similar size and power binos I've tried such as Steiner and Optolyte. I've yet to use a Carl Zeiss 15/60 but I don't think there would be much room for improvement. I have owned a Nobilum 10/50 for a couple of years now and would rate them a very close second to the Nikon 10/40 Superior E and the Leitz 10/42 (new generation). The 10/50 has a slight blue tint that is somewhat noticable at dawn and dusk. I can't see it in the bright day and I did not notice any tint in the 15/60 models which I also tested in bright day. Randy Dewees ==================================== Subject: new email list There's a new list for binocular users, mostly oriented towards amateur astronomers. http://www.egroups.com/group/Bino-net BINO-NET@___s.com On the web: A cursory review of a dozen binoculars: http://www.njaudubon.org/genlmenu/optics.html ===================================== Subject: Docter, Zeiss, Nikon From: Thomas Press I was puzzled by the query in the attached Binocular List as to whether Docter Optic is upholding the Zeiss Jena quality standards. My experience with late production Zeiss Jena binoculars, unfortunately, is that "quality standards" for Zeiss Jena is actually a contradiction in terms as the three examples I've owned were all in need of real help. For example, the right column focus on my 10 x 40 Notarem failed six months after purchase for no apparent reason, my 8 x 30 Deltrintem lost collimation after a truly trivial jolt, and right ocular of my 7 x 50 Binoctem infuriatingly refused to hold its setting. Optically, all three glasses were interesting, but the build quality for each was, to be charitable, shoddy. The better question, really, is whether Docter has made any improvements in the old Zeiss Jena line, other than the introduction of aspherical lens elements and new styling for the Notarem series. I was also interested to see a continuing fascination in the Binocular List with Nikon's Venturer line. It may be old prejudices on my part, but I've never shared the apparently universal enthusiasm for Nikon binoculars. Good glasses, certainly, but for me, at least, not the equal of the best of Zeiss/Swarovski/Leica. I would be curious to know if any readers have had any experiences with the new Swarovski 8.5 x 42 EL or the Zeiss Victory models. Thanks as always for most interesting reading. Tom Press ===== Zeiss does indeed have their 'ups & downs', no argument there. I have found Nikon's top of the line binoculars to be very good: the Prostar 7 x 50, HP 7 x 50, Astroluxe 10 x 70 & earlier versions, Superior E 10 x 42, and the Venturers. The best Leicas probably have better optics. However, there's plenty of room for different opinions here. Birders, astronomers, optical engineers, and repairmen are often at cross currents in evaluating binoculars. I also would like to hear about the new models from Zeiss & Swarovski (including the SLC 8 x 56 B, and SLC 15 x 56 WB). --Peter ======================================== Subject: Pioneer From: "EDWARD KENNEDY" I was at Pioneer's two different Hdqs in N.J. over the years. Bjorn fixes the glasses, and a large variety of pamplets and booklets and mfg. specs were available to me for the looking plus the trying out of the glasses. Nice people! Usually on the ball, formed by a former CZ technician in 1947. I have two 60's unrubbered traditional Steiner CF's. One made for Kresges. I have their old early 80's brochures,very stilted German English Usage. Military Marine and Pilot versions, also 15x80 & 7x50 Compass Commander series. I considered their original carbonnite models to be best in the 7x50, 15x80, 6x30(very fine) , 8x56 (not too rugged) . I considered the 10x50 & 8x30 lesser glasses. ......The Navy I glass is from Japan. 80-100,000 Steiners were supposedly used by all in the Gulf War II. After all Iraq & Iran had the first for 10 years ED ========================================== Subject: Meeting in L.A. From: Peter Abrahams On May 25, Steve Rohan, Dick Martin, Fan Tao, Leonard Matula, and Peter Abrahams, were joined by David & Nancy Bushnell, at Steve's residence. David brought old photos & papers from his business. Bob Penney, who designed riflescopes for Bushnell, arrived to share memories of their work together. Peter gave a talk on early 7 x 50s, based on Seeger's military book. Dick presented a short tutorial on photographing binoculars. We exchanged photocopies & exhausted Steve's photocopier by making copies of some of his papers. Steve's next book, a half finished collector's guide to binoculars, was discussed. Much time was spent in viewing and comparing binoculars. We viewed a video produced by Steve & Terry Vacani on repairing the Zeiss blc 25 x 100 (Seeger p166, 255). The Cardano circle used to adjust interocular distance was most interesting. The prism and eyepiece move together in this adjustment, and since the light path through the prism is doubled, a 1 mm movement of the prism will cause a 2 mm increase / decrease in the light path. The prism must therefore move half as far as the eyepiece, and when a user moves the eyepiece to fit their interpupillary distance, the linkage in the binocular moves the prism half as much. It is a very elegant & complex solution to a problem, which would seem to have much simpler solutions, with a basic redesign of the binocular......but the simple way isn't the Zeiss way. We discussed holding the next meeting in a year, near Memorial Day, possibly in San Diego. ========================================= Subject: Made in the U.S.? From: Peter Abrahams I had thought that Leupold was the only manufacturer of binoculars in the U.S., and recently learned that Litton Electro-Optical Systems still makes their 20 X 120 (or so it seems on their web page). At the L.A. meeting, we heard that there have been rubber armored 7 x 50s appearing at gun shows, marked Navy 7 x 50 Made in U.S.A. Does anyone know who would be making these? ========================================== Subject: Re: Russian 7x30's From: rab I really didn't take a HARD LOOK at those Russian long-eyrelief 7x30's until this evening. Zero or negligible distortion (which isn't necessarily a good thing!), slightly yellow image, but for the first time I noticed that they don't really have field astigmatism. If the markings on the IF eyepieces are to be believed, they DO have about 5D of inward curving field curvature. So, I suppose young soldiers with springy eyes could get sharp images over the whole field, allowing just enough time for the eyes to focus! I've never seen this in a binocular before. Quite remarkable! Regards, Dick Buchroeder ================================== Subject: Big bino fling in Hawaii From: rab I've packed my Nikko 10x70, Nikon 10x70, Bushnell 10x50, and Swift 7x35, in preparation for a Big Night at the Onizuka visitors center at the 9300' level on the side of Mauna Kea, on Memorial Day night! Keep your fingers crossed that the generally clear skies are in evidence that night. When I get back, after perhaps one more comparison run to Patagonia AZ, I want to disassemble an eyepiece on the Nikon 10x70 6.5-deg binoculars to see whether it is of Japanese wartime configuration, or if Nikon turned its back on the wartime Nikko in favor of the German Erfle design. The Nikon 6.5 degree binocular is NOT just a scaled version of the Nikko 7.0 degree 10x70. The ghost situation is considerably different (technically worse on the Nikon,which is 'bailed out' by its AR coatings) and the size/shape of the optics are different. Since both have similar eyerelief, it isn't apparent to me why Nikon didn't simply bring out a civilian version of the wartime Nikko rather than create the new binocular, which looks every bit as expensive as a replica of the exellent wartime glass. Hopefully, examination of the eyepiece will give insight. The instruction manual for the Nikon 10x70 WA contains an artist's sketch showing a 5-element Erfle. Regards, Dick. ======================================== Subject: ramblings on binoculars From: rab Gentlemen, As you know, I am trying to totally immerse myself in a deep-sky viewing experience next Monday night (or later in the week if weather interferes). I'm trying to understand, from the amateur astronomy point of view, what 'binoculars are all about'. One 'given' is that wide angle binoculars should always supplant 'narrow angle' binoculars if one's means permit. I'm ONLY interested in binoculars with 'wide angles', which means an apparent field of 60-degrees or more. My experience tells me that for aesthetic viewing, which is what this trip explores, something around 10x70 is an 'optimum' size. I've viewed with good 120mm and 150mm binoculars, but the diminishing field of view means that multiple objects...objects in relationship to one another...are no longer readily viewable. I also had a 13.1" dobsonian reflector binocular, and while it was wonderful, one was restricted to viewing 'single objects' all the time. On the small end, I've had lots of 7x35's, including the Rangemaster and the Swift Holiday Mark II, as well as Sans&Streiffe models #910 and #999, which altogether constitute samples of the very best low-power wide-angle binoculars ever made, with apparent fields approaching 90-degrees. But while multiple objects are now readily visible in the same field of view, my perception is that they're still too small, much like viewing with the naked eye, to see enough detail within the individual objects to make the views exciting. I have also owned two SARD 6x42 and found them disappointing in their low power, despite the large exit pupil and wide angle. Higher power binoculars have many interesting features and merits as well as demerits, but aren't readily hand-holdable, which keeps them out of the present investigation. Regards, Dick B. ============ From: Peter Abrahams For my own use, real field of view does not determine the usefulness of an astronomical binocular; since there are plenty of celestial objects of all sizes to fill a field. However, 10 x 70 might be the ideal astronomy binocular if 'hand holding' is paramount. Any increase in aperture would need to be matched with increased magnification, to keep the exit pupil within about 7 mm; and 12x, 15x, or 20x binoculars are increasingly difficult to hand hold. While there is nothing wrong with tripod mounted binoculars, if I'm going to haul around a tripod, I prefer to use a binocular viewer in a telescope. In comparing a top quality binocular viewer (Zeiss / Baader), to a binocular telescope of equal aperture, the only loss I see is the low power / wide field views provided by the twin telescope configuration. --Peter =================================================== =================================================== Binocular List #109: 02 June 2000 ============================================ Subject: Web site From: mikedenmark@___ele.dk Hi...finally got some bino pics on to my site...for those who enjoy the larger sizes...5-6 are now present.. Regards Mike Simonsen Copenhagen Denmark take a look here...hope you like it...if not ...tell me why not. http://www.geocities.com/FashionAvenue/Stage/9465/germanoptic/optikstart.html =================================== Subject: Pioneer, USA From: "William M. Beacom" I have noticed some discussion about Pioneer research and it's Navy One binocular. This binocular was marketed by several firms in the late 80's and early nineties. It was the Bushnell Waterproof Specator, The Vixen, 7X50 Waterproof, and was also a Celestron model. If memory serves me, It was manufactured by Seiwa Optical Co ltd in Tokyo. J/L code 191. You also have mentioned the Leupold glasses being made in the USA. I think a better term would be assembled in the USA. They like the the glasses made in San Diego by Kama Tech are assembled in the USA, from mostly imported parts. Kamakura KoKI furnishes parts for the Navy Glass currently being used, and assembled by KAMA-TECH. This glass is being manufactured in various forms for Swift, Bushnell,Edmunds, and others. I am sure someone has put NAVY on this glass, much like Pioneer put NAVY on their glass, for marketing purposes, and then said it was made in the USA, as Leupold claims. Bill Beacom aka Binocular Bill ================================ Subject: USA made? From: "Loren A. Busch" RE: Current Production Binoculars marked "Made in USA" Several recent batches of Swift Seahawk 7x50's and Fujinon 7x50 AR's have arrived marked "Made in USA". External comparison shows them to be identical to others in stock that carry the "Made in Japan" markings. Examination of a recently acquired (trade in but 'new', never out of the box) Fujinon 7x50 ARC (compass model) shows several noticeable external differences, the older bino's marked Japan. This pair are at least 5 years old. I have speculated that the 'Made in USA' Seahawks and AR's are coming from the San Dimas CA plant? Anyone know? Also might note that starting about 18 months ago, the Fujinon 7x50 WP-XL (polycarbonate bodies) have been coming marked either Japan or China, only perceptible difference being the almost impossible to see 'CHINA' markings on the binoculars, and a paste-over strip on the boxes saying "Made in China" We have the 8.5x42 EL Swarovski in stock, just arrived, first impression is very good, but no time yet to make detailed comparison. An interesting new product, introduced a year ago but just arriving on our shelves, is a spotting scope adapter or doubler for the Swarovski binos, both the new EL series and the larger (wont fit x30's) SLC's. The eyecups easily screw off of the SLC/EL series, and the doubler, about 4 inches long, screws on in its' place. This now gives about double the magnification and provides about the same eye relief as the original setup, complete with push-pull eyecups. Interesting design feature is the use of a threaded insert to allow this adapter to be used with all sizes of SLC and EL bino's. The protective cap for the adapter acts as a spanner for inserting or removing the adapter. The threaded porting is also clutched in such a manner that if you try to over tighten, the clutch slips, not allowing you to bind or strip the threads. ================================== Subject: USA made? From: "Bill Cook" Leupold: I finally got one of their reps (after beating him about the head and shoulders), to admit that their lenses did come from overseas and that, when push comes to shove, only two instruments (both pocket models), are truly made in the US. Those interested in American optics should check out my all brass Baywatch telescope http://www.baywatchscope.com Except for the eyepiece, it was totally designed and is built right here in Seattle. The 45-degree Amici prism is 15 percent larger than those coming from the Orient for "2-inch" eyepieces, and I designed the objective using Zemax-EE. As for the rubber armored 7x50s that say made in the USA: They could have been Fujinon ARs (which are not made by Fujinon), Swift Sea Hawks (which are not made by Swift, or Bushnell Navigators which are...you quessed it... not made by Bushnell. I am not at liberty to give the name of the manufacturer to the group lest I betray a trust. However, finding out from whence they come will not be rocket science. Kindest Regards, William J. Cook, Opticalman Chief, USNR-Ret. ==================================== Subject: USA made? From: Peter Abrahams Some of our foreign readers might be wondering why such a fuss is made about 'Made in the USA'. Americans are often guilty of a small minded provincialism regarding foreign trade, but in this case there is some reason for the 'local boosterism'. There is almost nothing left of the US binocular industry (and we don't pay import duties on binoculars for that reason). From 1900 to 1950, there was a thriving industry in the US, and the loss of an industry is not just a matter of jobs. It means that there are no optical engineers designing lens - prism systems, no mechanical engineers designing housings, no machinists and opticians producing binoculars; and all these people are valuable resources to those who study binoculars. Any efforts to re-establish this industry would be good news for us. In addition, the present situation at Leupold is slightly different than noted above. Prior to 1992, Leupold sold imported binoculars, including some with the 'Golden Ring' designation. In 1992, Leupold introduced 9 x 25 and 10 x 28 'Golden Ring' models. These 'Golden Ring' models were designed and prototyped at their Beaverton, Oregon plant. The lenses and prisms were made overseas, the bodies were made and the binoculars were assembled in Beaverton. In 1992, the 'Golden Ring' was taken off imported binoculars, and in 1994, all imports were labeled 'Wind River, imported by Leupold'. In 1996, Leupold introduced Golden Ring 8 x 32, 10 x 40, and 12 x 50 binoculars, similarly designed & fabricated in Beaverton, using imported glass. Leupold employs a team of optical designers, mechanical engineers, & machinists, that have been very helpful to me, and I regard their local presence as a valuable resource. Besides, I doubt I'll ever learn Japanese or Chinese. --Peter ===================================== Subject: Russian 7x30's From: Fan Tao About those Russian military 7x30 binoculars we have been discussing on the list, yes, I believe they are made by KOMZ since I have an instruction sheet from the Joint-Stock Company "Kazan Optical Mechanical Plant". Some of us have been calling it the "Red Star" binocular only because some units are marked with a red star as well as "Made in Russia", so they are clearly not Chinese in manufacture. After Dick Buchroeder's last report on these binoculars, curiousity got the better of me and I finally took apart one of the eyepieces. The eyepiece appears to be a variant of an orthoscopic or Konig design with a negative field element. There are seven elements in a 2-1-3-1 configuration (from field lens to eye lens). The field lens appears to be a negative doublet (followed by an optional reticle), then there is a planoconvex element (flat side towards the field), then a triplet, finally another planoconvex eye lens (flat side facing the eye). Interestingly, when the focus is changed, the spacing between the negative element and the rest of the lenses changes, causing a zoom effect. All elements are coated with the exception of the reticle. Also, the middle element in the triplet is noticeably yellow, so that appears to be the reason for the yellow image, rather than the coatings or prisms. Incidentally, Gary Russell is selling a zoom 17-24mm eyepiece that looks very much like it is from this Russian 7x30 binocular. If anyone has one of these eyepieces, I would be interested to hear about it. Regards, Fan Tao ===================================== Subject: Steiner From: "Bill Cook" With some of the posts I make, one might suppose that I do not like Steiner binoculars. Well, there are a number of reasons why I would put the IF Fujinons and Nikons ahead of them. However, this year I plan on adding them to the more than 100 models we already carry. My problem comes in handling some of the shuck and jive one has to deal with in the name of promotion. Goodness knows I know how to spread it thick. In fact, I am a master. However, when I see some of the stuff to come out of Pioneer...I drop to one knee and KNOW I am in the presence of greatness. C'mon Sven..you're the best promoter in the industry...just make it believable. "80-100,000 Steiners were supposedly used by all in the Gulf War." Where did that info come from? Do the math. How many ground troops did we drop off in Iraq? Did each soldier really need 3 binos - including the 85% who were never close enough to see the enemy at all? Or were cases of Steiners, that we didn't know about, being air lifted to Saddam? When I first wanted to give Steiner a try in my shop back in 1988, part of the pitch from our local Steiner rep was that they were being sold to "22 armies and navies around the world." After running some simple tests and determining I did not want Steiner in my line-up at that time, I called the rep up to tell him why: They were not as "waterproof" as other models I was carrying, each one tested was out of collimation to an inordinate amount, the baffles were IMHO too large or not spaced properly (you could see that bright ring of reflected light around the edge of the field), and the hinge and focus was just too sloppy for an instrument of that cost. When I work the hinge on a big Fuji, Nikon, Swarovski, or the like, it seems to whisper, R-o-l-l-s R-o-y-c-e. When I do that with a Steiner, the clickity clack seems to whisper "m-a-t-t-e-l." The last point of course is totally subjective. Then, about 2 months later, Sven was in the shop and I mentioned that our account would never be large enough to change the manufacturing procedure on any instrument that was being sold to 22 armies and navies, he said,"We don't sell to 22 armies and navies...just to one...the biggest." That comment made no sense to me and flew in the face of knowing that Steiner was being sold to a number of countries. It is at that point I no longer had time to play games and bagged it - not because of a few shortcuts in production, but rather the tricky rhetoric in their promotional work. I would dearly love to have dinner with Dr. Steiner himself. For less than $10 a bino and a change in promotional philosophy, Steiner could start blowing the doors off some of their competitors and all their braging could be based of quantifiable data instead of used car sales showmanship. Just a thought, William J. Cook, Opticalman Chief, USNR-Ret. Manager, Precision Instruments & Optics Group, Captain's Seattle ======================================== Subject: Introduction From: HAG.MEG@___ne.de (HAG.MEG@___ne.de) I started with Zeiss in 1978 in the microscopy department and came to the binoculars department in 1983. Besides other things I have to do in my job for Zeiss I'm the webmaster for our binoculars sites http://www.hensoldt.de alias http://zeiss-binoculars.de alias http://zeiss-sportsoptics.de and http://www.zeiss.de/fernglaeser, The site http://www.zeiss.de/binoculars is still under construction and at the moment it is linked to http://zeiss-binoculars.de. As far as the history of binoculars is concerned I'm less than a beginner in comparison to you but if you have technical questions concerning the binoculars program since 1983 I will be happy to assist you in getting answers. As I do a lot of business travel my answers may take time - sorry for that. Best regards, Walter Mergen ======================================== The Zeiss Hensoldt web page (yet another alias): http://www.hensoldt-zeissgruppe.de/default.asp?en includes a list of models: http://www.hensoldt-zeissgruppe.de/en/freizeit.asp with a tiny 4 x 12 binocular, and an electronic image intensified 5.6 x 60, that I've not seen before ====================================== We now have 83 list members, including France 1, Belgium 1, Denmark 1, England 2, Italy 2, Australia 3, Germany 3. We'd especially like to hear more from other countries, we know almost nothing about the binocular manufacturers of France & Italy, for example. ======================================= ======================================= Binocular List #110: 03 June 2000 ====================================== Subject: New Zeiss Binoculars - First Impressions From: HOldenburg@___m I always found Zeiss binoculars fascinating. My first good pair of binoculars was a pair of Zeiss 10x40's that I bought way back in 1980, still without phase- coating and T*-coating. Later I got a pair of 7x42's and, when Zeiss introduced the phase-coating, a pair of 8x30's. But things moved on, and for a long time Zeiss didn't introduce any new models that got me sufficiently interested - the NightOwls were too large and too heavy for my purposes, the stabilized 20x60S, a marvelous pair, is sort of in-between binoculars and terrestrial telescopes: The magnifcation is too large to replace the usual 8x to 10x birding binoculars, and too small to replace a scope. In the 1990's I finally had to concede that other manufacturers had raced ahead of Zeiss, so I somewhat reluctantly switched to Leica 8x32's because of their waterproofing and their very high contrast. Of course I continued using my 7x42's, optically perhaps the best pair of binoculars I know. Still, my main interest was still in Zeiss binoculars. I found a used pair of Zeiss 8x50's Porros a couple of years ago and bought them. Some time later I also got a pair of Zeiss 10x50 Porros my father in-law bought in 1963 ... So when the news broke that Zeiss would introduce a new line of binoculars I was immediately interested - not because I *need* another pair of binoculars, but rather because I *like* binoculars, especially Zeiss binoculars. And when I try hard enough I think I can even find a couple of good reasons to buy a high-quality pair of 10x binoculars ...:) Anyway, the new Zeiss binoculars hit the shops in Germany. It looks as though at present only the Victory 8x56 and the Victory 10x56 are available. That's not the range I'm interested in, I'm more interested in the 10x40's and possibly the 8x40's. (I use my binoculars for birdwatching, and I find any binoculars weighing over about 900 grams too heavy to carry around all day.) Still, I had a close look at a pair of the new 8x56's, and here are my first impressions. First of all, these bins are still heavy. But that's of course unavoidable with binoculars with such large objective lenses. Anyway, they're a lot better than the previous model, the NightOwls. The shape fits my hands very well, they're amazingly easy to hold for such heavy binoculars. The new eyecups are definitely better than the ones on the NightOwls which were prone to completely lose their shape very soon. However, I didn't find them as comfortable as the traditional rubber eyecups used on the Classic models, e.g. the (excellent) 7x42's. I didn't like the focusing. The focusing wheel is similar to the one of the NightOwls, and it's diameter is in my opinion definitely too small. That was one of the major shortcomings of the NightOwls, and I've got no idea why Zeiss kept this feature. In birding I've got to be able to focus my binoculars *very* quickly, and the focusing wheel just isn't ideal for that. What's more, the focusing was pretty stiff, and there was a rather strange difference between the two directions - the focusing was *much* stiffer when focusing towards the minimum focusing distance. I first thought this was just a freak occurrence, but the other two pairs I looked at were the same. Maybe that's of no importance to hunters, the group that will most likely buy these binoculars, but for birdwatching the focusing isn't ideal by any means. Optically, well, I didn't really have the time to do a thorough comparison and there was a lot of moisture in the air, but my first impression was that the 8x56's were good but not stunning. I did a quick comparison with the Leica 8x32's (in my opinion still one of the best birding binoculars on the market) and the Swarowski EL 8.5x42, and I actually preferred the Leica and the Swarowski over the Zeiss. In particular, I thought the Swarowski had if anything less colour fringing than the Zeiss. Go figure. Now, I realize this comparison was hardly fair as the Zeiss are most probably optimized for low light levels, so a comparison in bright sunlight may not really do them justice. Still, on the basis of what I saw I personally wouldn't consider using them as an all-purpose pair. The really interesting question now is - what are the 10x40's and the 8x40's like? The specifications look great, in fact they look so good that these binoculars may have a huge impact on the birding market where Zeiss has steadily been losing ground over the past 10-15 years - they're lightweight, fully waterproof, have an ergonomic shape and a close focussing distance. And on their website Zeiss stresses that that they've put some effort into cutting down on stray light ("Falschlicht"), so the contrast, perhaps the single most important feature now that most binoculars are pretty sharp, should be excellent. The only thing that remains to be seen is how they perform optically. The toughest competitors will be the corresponding Leica and the Swarovski models, and these aren't easy to beat. Any comments, also off the list, are always welcome. Hermann Oldenburg ================================================= Subject: binocs at 9300' on Mauna Kea From: rab Gentlemen, I spent approximately 1.5 hours on each of three successive nights (May 29-31, 2000), at the 9300' Onizuka Visitor Information Center (open more or less every night of the year), between approximately 8 and 9:30 PM . It's VERY cold at that altitude, and chill limited my observing spells. Finally, I made a trip to the local Salvation Army thrift shop in Hilo and picked up some warm accessories! The idea was to try all four of my favorite binoculars, then think the results over, and do it again the next and the next night. It's easy to be thrilled by the marvelously dark moonless sky, and the breathtaking sweep of the Milky Way, this time of the year, at 20-deg N latitude, so one has to get beyond that to appraise the optics. The Nikko 10x70, sadly, has very poor transmission by comparison to the others, and for this reason was not worthy of continued testing. Its optics were only partly AR coated by a previous owner; it's prisms are not coated at all (or if they are, the wrong faces were coated and the right ones not!). I suspect also its optics may have deteriorated with age and even though recoated are still inefficient. The Bushnell 10x50 Custom with 7-deg FOV (70-deg apparent) performed superbly, limited only by its 5mm exit pupil, and of course, by having only MgF AR coatings. It appears, based on eyepiece disassembly by Gene Harryman, the Bushnell 10x50 design derives from the Nikko 10x70, as do so many of the commercial postwar Japanese binoculars. Fresher optics, coatings, make it worthy! The Swift Holiday Mark II 7x35 with 10.9-deg marked field (76-deg apparent) is on of my favorite WA binoculars, but has never been entirely satisfactory in Southern Arizona, even in the darkest sites. However, I had to rethink my complaints about faintness when using it at 9300' on the side of Mauna Kea. Perhaps it was the extra 12-degrees of the richest part of the Milky Way that changed my mind, but there is definitely value and enjoyment, compared to the 10x70 binoculars, to be had with this size binocular! And, the wider apparent FOV made me wish I could take its eyepieces and attach them to the Nikon 10x70, which has only a 65-deg apparent FOV! The Nikon 10x70, modified to eliminate residual spherical aberration, produced the finest views of all the binoculars I had.'Fresh' optics, even though MgF coated, gave the most contrasty images. Its larger aperture also makes stars brighter than in the Bushnell 10x50. (star brightness, provided the eye pupil is filled, depends on the square of the binocular's aperture); I doubt that I was getting the 70/50- squared gain, because my eyes no longer open to 7mm, but I have measured them at about 6mm recently (Sky & Telescope used to sell a pupil measuring device; I had a prototype given to me years ago). My preference, if limited to only one of these binoculars, would be without hesitation the Nikon 10x70. However, it would be wise to bring a tripod of some kind because lugging 5-lb 10-x binoculars is fatiguing, and no matter how well one holds it by hand, some performance is lost by jitter. The matter of residual spherical aberration, whether it be in the Optics, or in the viewer's eye (most eyes have undercorrect SA...see Handbook of Optics, Second Edition, OSA) is absolutely worth considering. The present Nikon 10x70 x 6.5 binocular was equipped with removable SA correctors that I designed and which Steve Stayton mounted in removable cells that attach to the Nikons. The comfort and improvement that results with the correctors is instantly apparent. There are theoretical drawbacks to the general application of such correctors, or to designing ordinary binoculars with modified objectives, but my experience over these three nights (my first serious stargazing experiment with hand-holding the corrected binoculars) showed me that with some training, the shortcomings are minor and the advantages are indisputable. More may be written later about the correctors, but it is premature to lay those cards on the table at this time. Regards, Dick Buchroeder ============ Subject: Bushnell Custom 10x50 From: rab Well, my Bushnell paid a price for going to Mauna Kea! I'd packed it, the Nikkos, and the Swift altogether in a Samsonite suitcase. The Nikkos were in their military wooden box. The Swifts were in bubble wrap. The Bushnells were in a Bushnell binocular case, stuffed inside another box. To make a long story short, when I unpacked them I noticed that one of the spectacle lenses that I tacked to the eyepiece barrel with Duco was no longer connected. And it takes a pretty fair amount of G-force to separate a 1" diameter thin lens from something like the binocular. Rebonded the lens back on with Duco, and examined image. Now have severe vertical decollimation, far more than misalignment of the spectacle could ever cause (and all I had to do was match the tear-lines in the cement!). So, although I can't see or hear anything loose, my guess is that one of the prisms got wacked loose. Good excuse, then, to do some invasive surgery on the Customs! Regards, Dick. ===================================== Subject: Re: more on viewing the sun From: rab Made my second visit to Mauna Kea on Monday, and got the same tour driver to take me along to the peak. This time I used a 0.5% Tiffen ND glass absorption filter (I admit, I didn't run a trace to see if it blocks IR and therefore this is a dangerous thing to do. I'm going to ask Schott specifically if they have that information. Their filter catalog shows no dropping-off as of 1100nm, but that's still not far enough to know safely.) And again I was cautious, bobbing around, etc. Afterwards, I could detect no changes from my-side of the retina. It was cloudier than last month...clear off to Maui and beyond, with Haleakala clear from about the 8000' level and above. The cloud level on MK was at about that height. There was bumpiness in the cloud layer, it wasn't nice and smooth. So, I started observing when the sun was half-way immersed in the cloud deck. And what I could see with the ND filer that I couldn't see previously, due to the high brightness, is that the top of the sun starts to show green even when a very sizable (say 1/3) of it is above immersion, and this green at the top grows until it's the only thing left just before total immersion. ( I would imagine that a low- density aluminum filter would work for the experiment, but the chrome filters appear so orange that I don't know if you'd see the green). Then, finally, at the Kona airport last evening, I was able to watch the sun set over the sea, I being just a little above sea level. Again, there was something of a cloud layer, but it was very close to the horizon. And, sure enough, the top turned green several seconds before it became totally immersed. So, there you have it: 3 out of 3 for me, visible only because of the 10X optical aid. I think you are right, Joe, that certain circumstances result in brighter 'flashes' than the mundane daily behavior. But there seems no doubt that given an unobstructed horizon, one can see some measure of this effect on every reasonably clear occasion. I imagine you'd see it at sunrise too, but you'd have to be right there at the right time or it would escape you. Any idea about green flash at sunrise? Dean and I believe it was Bob G too said they could also see a blue 'flash' from the McMath scope on Kitt Peak. If the idea is that normally the blue light from the sun is scattered away, and that the red image is already below the horizon because it refracts less than the green/blue, then seeing the blue would indicate extremely low scattering in the atmosphere along that path, and a blue image would be the last to sink below the horizon. Obviously, before making this sort of thing widely known to the public, some SERIOUS attention to safety has to be paid. I think you're right that suggesting anyone look directly at even the setting sun with a binocular/telescope is simply unmentionable. However, what do you think about suggesting the use of a suitable ND filter, called out by name and number, in conjuction with a telescope/binocular? Or has anyone tried it with a plain old Tuthill Solarskreen to see if there is enough transmission at sunset to see the Green? Please advise! Dick Buchroeder ===== I looked through this book a while back, and don't recall too many details, but it was very good: O'Connell, D. J. K. The green flash, and other low sun phenomena. [Castel Gandolfo] Vatican Observatory; New York, Interscience Publishers, 1958. 192p., 80 color photos. --Peter =============================================== Subject: Steiner etc. From: "EDWARD KENNEDY" I enjoyed the precise info on Navy I and Leupold and Steiner. I was to the Steiner reps at Pioneer and spoke with the people and read literature. I own and did own various Steiner products. I know people fanatical about them and those against them. Anyway, they were truthful as Bill Cook supported in the Japanese etc. mfg. of optical products and assembly in Germany. Bill, I think it was 40-armies and navies used them. 80,000-100,000 pairs in the Gulf War!!!!???? My brother (kid) Kevin was a full bird Colonel in the USMC, on the USS Tripoli, and commanded forces that were to attack the Basra coastal islands but instead went inland and through the super duper fantastic , indefeatable Republican Guard. His forces fought for and easily took the Kuwait Airport and some 700 prisoners. To the chase--- he had no Steiner Glasses, in fact he specifically mentioned a fellow staff officer getting a pair from his dad sent to him before departure to the gulph. The pair were Commander II's he said with compass, as I own a pair and do love them. Stored away in boxes? very , very possible with the goverment doing things. I really believe the USA Goverment has something against men having binoculars. It might be the inherit comment I get when viewing "Duh! Lookin in windows or for birds, duh?". I worked on the RR and used all types of optical equipment well to my advantage and eventually all the critics secretly harbored a pair somewhere and some secretly had me sell them some or check out what they had, when they bought them . Funny, old Civil War photos are quite numerous with "Field Glasses" and telescopes displayed. Look through "Pictorial History of the SS", and many similar very pictorial reference books and You see many pairs of various binoculars adorning necks galore. In "Dah Nam" my 7x35, 7.3 degree Nikon , Cf glasses were used extensively. Many coveted them. I also used a Pansonic Zoom 7.5-15x40 pr for use on perimeter towers. The 7.5-9 was crisp, on up less. I had them collimated and cleaned at Miller Optics , an old friend of mine, in Philadelphia. In the 60's , I also purchased several prs of 19th century glasses "Field Glasses" and "PILOT" Glasses" from Riggs and Brothers, Philadelphia, Penna. , 1968 they went out of business as an optical and nautical supplier for Merchant Shipping as Philadelphia began to lose its secondary Maritime Slot on the East Coast. I still use them on the coast here in small boats, 3 1/2-4 power. Leupold made here! I've been deluged by "know it all sportsmen " and I said I doubt it. Now I'm confirmed. Thank you! B&L closed their Glass Factory in Rochester, NY in 1995 I'm told. Does anyone have any info? About my brother and Steiners, I shall check in more detail and report back to You all forthwith. Ed ------------ B & L: Glass factory closed July 25, 1985. 1995, glass plant razed. http://www.bausch.com/About/chronology.html ================================================= Subject: Steiner M-22G evolution From: "Steve Harris" The last few Binocular List postings have brought back memories of my experiences with the Steiner M-22G. I sat down this afternoon and whipped out a rather lengthy summation of many articles that I have saved over the years and some interesting Web sites that are related to the military and military optics. These sites should also serve as resources for further research into the topic of modern US military binoculars. All Best Wishes, Steve Harris ========= Subject: Steiner M-22G, evolution of the M-22 program, new US Army binocular entries, and a few tips for the M-22G owner From: “Steve Harris” Steiner M-22G’s started to show up shortly after Operation Desert Storm as “hocked restricted items” at pawnshops and military surplus stores throughout the country. Here in Texas, the flow of units out of Ft. Hood (Kileen, TX) where III Corp is based, was almost scandalous. http://hood-pao.army.mil/units.htm I have heard that this was an annoying problem for the Army nationwide, usually found around bases involving large armored units. By 1996, the trickle had turned into a flood, as these binoculars actually started turning up as official surplus at DRMS appointed bases tasked with optical surplus sale and disposal. Many of the binoculars were becoming rather ragged after being brutalized by the desert sands and banged around in the armored environment. For many of the binoculars, the demilitarization process involved removal of the safety level code D laser filers or destruction of the filter while still attached to the binocular. Eventually, the binoculars started to show up largely “in-tact” with many lots including scantly used and even new binoculars. Federal and State agencies got wind of the M-22G’s release and complained to the DoD about not getting access to these binoculars through the auction process. The DoD responded by diverted a large quantity out of the auction supply chain to the Border Patrol, DEA, BATF, and others. Some state police and larger metropolitan police departments also received small quantities of M-22’s during this process. The reason why the M-22G went to auction, after only roughly a decade of service, is still a mystery. Sure, the binoculars took a beating in the Gulf, but other binoculars such as the M-15, M-16, and M-17 have been around for 50+ years and are still in serviceable condition. One possible reason for the early retirement was the glint problem associated with the M-22G’s laser filters. The “glowing pink” laser filters were often referred to as “shoot-me filters” by many who used the binocular in combat. Even small amounts of reflected light off of the filters created glint that could be seen for up to a mile. The glint problem was finally corrected in mid-1997 by the Tenebraex Corp. (Boston, MA) http://www.camouflage.com/front.html (this Web site has many photos and diagrams of US Army binoculars and a interesting bit of history on glint, this is a must visit site!) with the introduction of their killFlash Anti-Reflective Device (ARD). While the advertising material claims that resolution is not affected, most who have used the M22-G-ARD’s will tell you that something goes terribly wrong when the filters are put in place. Resolution IS affected and the crisp Steiner image denigrates to that of a much inferior glass. Another possible reason for the M-22G’s disfavor is the fact that the laser filters on the unit are very limited in the bandwidth protection that they offer. Newer, multi-bandwidth laser threats in the early 1990’s made the 1970’s designed laser filters somewhat obsolete. Other reasons for early phase-out status range from the M-22G’s weight and bulky size to durability/quality problems associated with the Macrolon construction (polycarbonate reinforced fiberglass). Sometime in the mid-1990’s a company called Kama-Tech Corp. (Chula Vista, CA) http://genyosha.com/JCTN/Advertisers/HL/Kamakura/Kamakura.html started producing an inter-service (?) replacement for the M-22G using the Fujinon Nautilus 7X50AR body with a modern multi-bandwidth laser filter located in each objective tube, directly behind the objective lens. The binocular has black body armor (thus the M-22B designation) and the Fujinon name is embossed on the left top plate. The objective coating is a very bright, almost iridescent green color, creating a glint problem of almost the same magnitude as with the M-22G. The laser filter can be seen behind the objective lens and it also has a high glint factor. The relatively compact Nautilus 7X50AR body was most likely used because of weight and size complaints associated with the Steiner M-22G. The Kama-Tech binocular is still being assembled in the US using Japanese body and parts, with laser filters manufactured in the US. Corion Optical Filters (Franklin, MA) http://www.corion.com/index.html also produced the M-22B under DoD contract during the mid-1990’s. It has been suggested that Corion makes the laser filter that is inside the Kama Tech binocular, but this cannot be confirmed. In 1998, Corion lost its contract with the DoD and production of the M-22B was taken over by the OFC Corp. a Division of Corning NetOptix (Natick, MA) http://www.ofccorp.com/ Not much is known about the M-22B variant produced by OFC. It certainly is thought to have advanced laser filters and may have electronic sensors that are being developed across town at the Army’s Soldier System Center http://www.natick.army.mil/ OFC is a pioneer in both diamond turning of optical glass and variable bandpass optical filtration systems. With the looming threat of advanced oscillating wavelength lasers on the battlefield, more complex variable bandpass filtration systems will be needed on military optical devices, thus utilizing OFC’s strategic expertise. For a bit more information on the threat of blinding laser weapons and their impact on the optical battlefield, investigate Lisa A. Small’s definitive, non-technical, summary paper at http://www.icltd.org/laser_weapons.htm With a surprisingly comprehensive (!) listing of US and foreign classified/non- classified battlefield laser weapons systems, it is certainly worth a read even if laser weapons are not you area of interest! If you ABSOUTELY MUST have more technical details, see John Knowles’ article “Early Morning DEW: Directed Energy Weapons Come of Age” in the JOURNAL OF DEFENSE ELECTRONICS, October, 1996 (sorry, I don’t have a link here, try a major public university library located in a city with lots of defense contractors to borrow your copy of JDE). So what is new and exciting with binoculars and the US Army? Probably the most interesting development has been the adoption of the Leica Vector 1500 Laser Rangefinder binocular http://www.leica-geosystems.com/optronics/product/vector1500.htm (military version of the civilian Leica Geovid 7X42 BDA) for Special Forces, forward observation units and tactical teams. An even more advanced Vector 1500 (code named “Viper”) was described in an article in the March 1997 issue of ARMED FORCES JOURNAL INTERNATIONAL http://www.afji.com/mags/1997/Mar/MarToc.html entitled “Talking Binoculars” (http://home.europa.com/~telscope/talkin~1.jpg) which described a pair of Vector 1500’s modified by the ThermoTrex Corp. (San Diego, CA) http://www.thermo.com/subsid/tkn.html which communicate with each other via bursts of low power laser signals. I understand from reliable sources that these binoculars have been issued to Special Forces units and have been seen in use at Ft. Polk’s (Alexandria, LA) Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) http://www.jrtc-polk.army.mil/vrtcex.htrm location of the Army’s Advanced Digital Battlefield. I must say that it is rather reassuring to see the Army giving consideration to such a fine pair of binoculars! For more on Leica’s military binocular applications visit http://www.global-defence.com/pages/leica.html Putting that Steiner M-22G back in showroom condition In 1996, I won several lots of Steiner M-22G binoculars at DRMS auctions and also purchased lots from army surplus dealers who could not figure out how to repair and re-market really nasty examples of the M-22G. Learning the in and outs of this binocular was a quick study in the three steps of the Steiner repair hierarchy. First, “if it’s not broke, don’t fix it.” Second, “if it’s kinda broke, cannibalize it.” And third, “if it really is broke, you can’t fix it.” Glued Macrolon is not a pleasant material to work with. It is structurally resistant to blunt impacts, yet terribly brittle when it comes to puncture damage. Actually tearing one apart for internal cleaning was usually out of the question. But for the most part, the majority (90%) of the examples that I worked with were very clean internally; even after all they had been though. The exterior coatings and lenses also held up remarkably well, considering the fact that many of these binoculars had literally been sandblasted from the micro-sand particles common to Operation Desert Storm. So, in my humble opinion, the M-22G is a reasonably tough and reliable binocular from a structural standpoint. Collimation problems, lubrication issues, and poor accessibility for some kind of maintenance certainly do raise concerns about its quality and design for long-term use. If you happen to run across or have a Steiner M-22G that is in good shape from an optical standpoint, don’t let its grimy looks or missing parts keep it from being a nicer part of your collection of modern military optics. If the binocular was in the Gulf, you will generally find lots of micro sand dust still hiding under most of the rubber parts. This dust is highly abrasive and will eventually do damage (if it hasn’t already), so as a starting point, it is a good idea to strip off all the rubber accessories/parts and give the binocular a general wipe down. Trying to get the green rubber armor clean can be solved using Castrol Superclean (2-Butoxyethanol (111-76-2), Sodium Metasilicate (6834-92-0). Superclean is a highly alkaline, industrial strength cleaner/degreaser and can be found at your local auto parts store. Superclean is the only cleaning agent (out of dozens that I have tried) that that does a good job of removing the grime, while also gently breaking down the micro thin outer layer of oxidized hardened rubber. This stuff does a wonderful job and really makes the green rubber look factory new. It is recommended that you use gloves with this stuff and make sure and wipe off the rubber armor after you have finished, using a mild liquid dishwashing detergent and water. Parts for the M-22G are still available through a civilian source. Tom and Suzanne Schott at Optic Options (800-872-0273) take care of outsourcing for all of Pioneer Research’s binocular parts. If your order is of a reasonable quantity, I am sure that the Schott’s will be more than happy to work out a deal with you. Some of the more commonly requested parts that are still available are priced below. M-22G Laser filters $100.00 one set left! M-22G Laser filter rubber donut cover $39.95 each M-22G Laser filter objective cover (designed to fit over filter) $14.99 each M-22G Eyecups $19.95 set M-22G Diopter retaining ring $7.20 set M-22G Diopter knobs (not original) $11.00 each M-22G Original strap $9.95 each If your original laser filters are broken, missing or you just want to have the ultimate Steiner M-22G accessory, the good folks at Deutsche Optik http://www.deutscheoptik.com/specials.shtml have unissued, Steiner M-22G polarizing filters that replace the original laser filters for $60 a set. These polarizing filters were sold as part of the original Steiner/DoD contract and went unissued! Steve Harris =========================================== =========================================== Binocular List #111: 04 June 2000. ========================================= Subject: East German Zeiss binoculars & Memory Lane From: SCSambrook@___m Although by no means an expert of East German Zeiss binoculars, I was in the photo-retail trade from the mid 60s to the 80s, and I certainly sold a lot of them. In Britain there were two distinct 'families' of porro models - the cheaper ones (7x 50, 8x 30, 10x 50) being called 'Jenoptem', and the dearer ones having the traditional Zeiss names (Deltrintem et. al.). There had also been a range named 'Werra' in the late 60s, which was the name of of an idiosyncratic East German camera - we always assumed those binos were also Zeiss-Jena. Throughout the 1970s the 8x 30 Jenoptem, which was by far the most popular model, sold at about £30, or say $50 at then-exchange rates. We got 33.3% basic discount, plus an extra 10% for quantity orders. It was always very hard to explain to customers why the 8x 30 Deltrintem, costing almost twice as much, appeared to be identical - irrespective of whether one was looking at it or through it ... Eventually the 8x 30 Jenoptem was designated 8x 30W, and marked 'Multi coated'. The external quality of these seemed less good than the earlier ones, although they seemed to perform equally well - but not better. Towards the end of the 80s, the appearance of the whole range became somehow cheaper, and both mechanical and optical deficiencies became more common. I remember the big 8x 50 Nobilem being sold off at ridiculously low prices in the 80s, trade cost was about £60 (say $90/100). And also the Dodekarem - some in leather covering, some in rubber. The roof prism Notarem models were, I believe, not very good. At least, not the ones I looked through. It amazes me to see high prices on these today ... They were poor sellers when they came on the market - most people can tell the difference between indifferent and good, if not between good and better. I think the 8x was a lot better than the 10x - but neither of them had any of the 'bite' that you get from a top class bino. They were better than a Swift Trilyte of the same era ... which isn't saying much. The best of the East German models was the porro 7x 40 Septarem - yes, 7x 40 - just like the ones that turn up as DDR surplus today, but not the EDF type.. Only in the 70s they cost £60 retail, and included a first class leather case. And I never saw a poor one. Mmm, should have bought one for myself ... trade price was er, £36 ... plus sales tax 15%. The Docter 8x 30 sells today at around £120 over here ... you can buy secondhand as-new 8x 30Jenoptems for £30-ish - no contest really. And yes, I understand your concern about 'Made in USA' binocs - we used to have a binocular industry once ! As globalisation continues I expect it will be only a matter of time before we see Leica binoculars assembled in Patagonia from optical components moulded in Sierra Leone and ground and polished in Iraq, with mechanical parts fabricated in the Spice Islands from materials originating in Crete. And worldwide distribution handled from Tierra del Fuego .... My fiends tell me I am pessimist by nature. Finally, A Question - has anyone any experience of the 'Swiss Leica' binocular which Deutsche Optik sells ? I have not seen this advertised in Europe, but then I don't get out very much in Europe ... Best wishes Stephen Sambrook. =========================================== Subject: USA, customers From: "Bill Cook" >Leupold made here! I've been deluged by "know it all sportsmen " and I said I doubt it. Now I'm confirmed. Thank you!< Don't push it. Though my poor mother was illiterate, she was wise enough to teach me, "Never get in a battle of wits with an unarmed person. You'll lose every time." It was this "Sportsman" category that gave me the: "I doan see y uh main kan't kideem a good 7x50 at'll fitinis shirt pocket." "Hell, uh telescope at big oughtta be able tuh look thugh uh few little clouds," and the ever popular, "Do you have any telescopes that can look through wood, steel, and car doors?" The scariest thing to me is that these people are issued driver's liscenses. Regards, William J. Cook, Opticalman Chief, USNR-Ret. ========================== Subject: Steiners and Leitz Vectors From: "Brian Haren" Reference the email from Edward Kennedy about the comments from active duty personnel about not having binoculars available when they need them. As an active duty soldier I can vouch for the shortage of binoculars in units. While I'm not in a combat specialty (I'm a topographic engineer), my specialty used to require me to lead small teams of field reconnaisance soldiers around the battlefield to collect geographic (or terrain) data. The one item I could never get authorized was binoculars. In the Army binoculars hold the same accountability status as trucks, tanks and machine guns; they are considered "non-expendable major end items" and must be inventoried, safeguarded and accounted for in the same manner as trucks, tanks and machine guns. Some units even consider them "sensitive items" and insist they be locked up in safes or arms rooms. The number of binoculars a unit may have is determined by the unit's modified table of organization and equipment (MTOE). You can have no more than what the MTOE says you may have. Period. If you want to increase your authorization (a paperwork drill, but it can be done), your higher ups invariably ask, "Why do you need more toys that just have to be accounted for?" The implication here is that bino's are "toys" and that the pain of keeping track of them outweighs the potential benefit of having them available to the soldiers who need them to do their job. Aaah, the military mind. End result? My compatriots and I end up taking our own binoculars to the field to get the job done. I've had lieutenant colonels ask if they could borrow my Steiners, even though I knew full well their unit had bino's sitting back in garrison, locked in a safe! As far as huge numbers of binoculars showing up on the market after the Gulf War, I can easily understand it. Remember, immediately after the war the US Military got the order to downsize - FAST! The Army is about half the size it was in 1990. We literally imploded. From personal experience I can tell you that the normal property disposal rules were bent in the name of expediency. A lot of base DRMO (property disposal) offices were holding public "fire sales" of turned-in equipment that would normally have been shipped to regional depots for reconditioning/reissue. The Army literally had too much excess stuff to handle and figured it easier to sell it off locally than clean it up and store it for later use. I am sure this is how so many binoculars made it onto the surplus market. Now, referencing Steve Harris' reference to the military's use of the Leitz Vector bino's. A few years back I was involved in the testing of a really neat system put together by the Army as part of the "Digital Battlefield" concept. The Army has taken a pair of the Vector binoculars, a laptop computer and a GPS receiver, hooked them all together through a GIS software package and uses this system to collect accuate positioning data in the battlefield. The Leitz bino's are really sweet - stunning optics, a digital compass and laser rangefiner (and a price to match!). The bino's have a serial port, so they can be hooked to the laptop. The system works like this; the GPS receiver is constantly feeding position information to the laptop software, which tracks a soldier's current position on a "moving map" display. The soldier sees something on the battlefield he needs to get an accurate position on (lets say a bridge the enemy put up overnight), but he does not want to expose himself and give away his position. He takes the binoculars, gets a quick azimuth and range to the bridge from his position and the software accurately calculates the bridge's true location (within a few meters). The soldier makes a quick call on his radio and within a few minutes artillery is accurately raining down on the bridge. Neat (from a soldier's perspective)! Brian ================== Subject: Green Flash From: Jack Kelly" The question was raised about a green flash at dawn. While climbing Mt. Hood a number of years ago we stopped at about the 9000 foot level to watch the sun rise and experienced a very bright, almost strobe-like green flash. The weather was slightly overcast at the time. The flash was very pronounced and I was not using binoculars. Regards, Jack ================================= From: "Bill Cook" >Funny, old Civil War photos are quite numerous with "Field Glasses" and telescopes displayed.< Ah yes, I can see it now - July 1, 1863. The faint sound of marching feet and the dust it would raise. Brig. Gen. John Buford, now on McPherson Ridge just northwest of Gettysburg, looked town the Cashtown Road. He KNEW what was coming, but he had to use his field glasses to be sure. 2,300 men with him - John Reynolds and his troops hours away - and 20,000 Rebs to be dealt with before nightfall. John was not ever severely wounded. He died of caring for his men and exhaustion 6 months later. He was lucky though. Had he been an instrument repair tech and had to deal with the Navy bureaucrats on a regular basis, he wouldn't have lived to see the Civil War at all. But then....I digress. William J. Cook, Opticalman Chief, USNR-Ret. ============================================= Subject: Zeiss Fernrohrlupe; Zeiss Wien; Glare problems From: "Jack Kelly" From: Lothar Helling [mailto:l.helling@___ne.de] >> at my Fernrohrlupe has been a - not original - screw in the middle of the bridge (?) between the two objectives. This screw is 10 mm long and might have fixed the extra lens-device. Each objective has an extra brass-ring (thickness 1,5 mm, height 3 mm). At the top of the middle-axle is a nut to fix the Fernrohrlupe at a holder. In Jena is an optical shop, which has sold Zeiss-products direct from the factory. This has been at GDR-times. But even now they have three different auxiliary close- up lenses for the Turmon. As you know, the binocular-production of Zeiss at GDR- times has been in Eisfeld, not in Jena. This factory was bought by Docter-Optic, a West-German company. They produce now in Eisfeld a monocular like the Turmon, but with plastic body. Optical quality is good. Regards, Lothar<< ------ > I just measured the special objective ring on my Fernrohrlupe Teletur. It measures 5mm high and 22mm in diameter. The glass also has a special chrome knob at the top of the center hinge. The knob screws onto a threaded post which is 7.5mm in diameter and 6mm high. Jack < ------- The special objective ring on my Fernrohrlupe is also 22 mm in diameter, but only 3 mm high. The chrome knob seems to be the same. I give you the adress of the photoshop in Jena, where I saw the close-up lenses, if you want to order them directly from USA. One lens was - I think - aproximate DM 20.-, that is $ 10.-. Foto Zentrum Johannisstrasse 12 07743 Jena Some weeks ago I got a Telact 8X from Zeiss Wien. What do you know about the S/N of Zeiss Wien? Did they have own numbers or are their S/Ns a part of the Jena numbers? My Telact is 314613. What do you think about the quality of Zeiss Wien compared to Jena? Hans Seeger writes, that there are only very few binoculars it is a pleasure and a recreation for the eys, to look through. That is not sharpness, contrast and so on. A lot of modern expensive top-glases have that. But this very few give you more, they give you a seeing-event. Hans Seeger says, the Telact is one of these. Before I got it, I did not realy know what he means. But now I know. Do you h